|
No. 76 |
No 76 |
|
|
Votes and Proceedings |
Procès-verbaux |
|
|
Legislative Assembly |
Assemblée législative |
|
|
Wednesday |
Mercredi |
|
|
1st Session, |
1re session |
|
|
Prayers |
Prières |
The Speaker delivered the following ruling:-
On Monday, June 12, 2000 the Member for Parkdale-High Park (Mr. Kennedy) raised a matter of privilege relating to an advertisement sponsored by the government that addresses issues relating to Bill 74, and specifically to after-school activities.
The Member asserted that the advertisement amounted to a prima facie case of contempt, likening it to the ad that was the subject of a January 22, 1997 ruling by Speaker Stockwell. Further, the Member objected to the timing of the ad, which coincided with public hearings on the subject.
The Government House Leader (Mr. Sterling) also made a submission respecting this point of privilege. It was his view that the ad in question makes no "presumption that the legislation is law or has passed".
I listened carefully to the arguments put forward and I have obtained a transcript of and reviewed the text of the ad. In addition, I have reviewed the precedents relating to privilege and government advertising.
First to address the ruling of January 22, 1997 by Speaker Stockwell. In that instance, the Government had distributed a brochure, which used words that presumed passage of the Bill in question. The language used was definitive in that it indicated that the measures contained in the Bill had already occurred or would certainly occur.
This in my view is not the case with the ad in question today. It simply states that the government is taking action with respect to extracurricular activities. It does not reflect upon or presume the outcome of the proceedings of the Legislature. This ad is more akin to ads the government ran on Bill 160 that were also the subject of a ruling by Speaker Stockwell. On November 18, 1997 in respect of those ads, Speaker Stockwell stated that:
"The ads may represent an aggressive challenge to opposing views put forward by others, but I do not believe they caused any of us to come here without the uncontested ability to continue the debate on this issue nor can it be argued that the respect due to this House is diminished by the wording of the ads."
As to the timing of the ads, I note that such advertising has occurred on at least four other occasions concurrently with consideration of the matter in the House or its committees. That in and of itself does not make it acceptable. However, the determination with respect to privilege has to be whether or not the effect of the ad has been to intimidate Members or cause them to be obstructed in carrying out their parliamentary functions. I do not believe this ad has had that effect. Indeed, the Members have continued to debate and vote on Bill 74 unimpeded.
For these reasons, I find that a prima facie case of contempt has not been made out.
|
Reports by Committees |
Rapports des Comités |
Mr. Kennedy from the Standing Committee on Estimates presented a report, pursuant to Standing Order 119(b), with respect to an appeal on a decision of the Chair of the Standing Committee on Estimates by the majority of the Standing Committee (Sessional Paper No. 138).
|
Introduction of Bills |
Dépôt des Projets de Loi |
|
The following Bills were introduced and read the first time:- |
Les projets de loi suivants sont présentés et lus une première fois:- |
|
Bill 103, An Act to establish a commission of inquiry to inquire into the investigations by police forces into sexual abuse against minors in the Cornwall area. Mr. Guzzo. |
Projet de loi 103, Loi visant à créer une commission chargée d'enquêter sur les enquêtes menées par des corps de police sur les plaintes de mauvais traitements d'ordre sexuel infligés à des mineurs dans la région de Cornwall. M. Guzzo. |
|
Bill 104, An Act respecting the payment of Severance Pay to Public Sector Employees. Mrs. Bountrogianni. |
Projet de loi 104, Loi concernant le versement d'indemnités de cessation d'emploi aux employés du secteur public. Mme Bountrogianni. |
|
Bill 105, An Act to amend the Tobacco Control Act, 1994. Mr. Gilchrist. |
Projet de loi 105, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1994 sur la réglementation de l'usage du tabac. M. Gilchrist. |
|
Bill 106, An Act, in recognition of Lynn Henderson, to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997, in order to provide for compensation for secondary victims of occupational disease. Mr. Christopherson. |
Projet de loi 106, Loi Lynn Henderson modifiant la Loi de 1997 sur la sécurité professionnelle et l'assurance contre les accidents du travail afin de prévoir l'indemnisation des victimes indirectes de maladies professionnelles. M. Christopherson. |
|
The following Bill was introduced, read the first time and referred to the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills:- |
Le projet de loi suivant est présenté, lu une première fois et déféré au Comité permanent des règlements et des projets de loi d'intérêt privé:- |
Bill Pr17, An Act to change the name of The Corporation of the Township of West Perth to The Corporation of the Municipality of West Perth. Mr. Johnson.
|
Motions |
Motions |
|||
|
On motion by Mr. Sterling, |
Sur la motion de Mr. Sterling, |
|||
|
Ordered, That, pursuant to Standing Order 9(c)(ii), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. on Wednesday, June 21, 2000, for the purpose of considering government business. |
||||
|
Deferred Votes |
Votes différés |
|||
|
The deferred vote on the motion for Third Reading of Bill 68, An Act, in memory of Brian Smith, to amend the Mental Health Act and the Health Care Consent Act, 1996 was carried on the following division:- |
La motion portant troisième lecture du projet de loi 68, Loi à la mémoire de Brian Smith modifiant la Loi sur la santé mentale et la Loi de 1996 sur le consentement aux soins de santé, mise aux voix sur le vote différé, est adoptée par le vote suivant:- |
|||
|
AYES / POUR - 82 |
||||
|
Agostino |
Elliott |
Mushinski |
||
|
Arnott |
Eves |
Newman |
||
|
Baird |
Flaherty |
Ouellette |
||
|
Barrett |
Galt |
Palladini |
||
|
Bartolucci |
Gerretsen |
Parsons |
||
AYES / POUR - Continued
|
Beaubien |
Gilchrist |
Patten |
||
|
Bountrogianni |
Gill |
Phillips |
||
|
Boyer |
Gravelle |
Pupatello |
||
|
Bradley |
Guzzo |
Ramsay |
||
|
Brown |
Hardeman |
Runciman |
||
|
Bryant |
Harris |
Sampson |
||
|
Caplan |
Hoy |
Smitherman |
||
|
Christopherson |
Hudak |
Snobelen |
||
|
Chudleigh |
Jackson |
Spina |
||
|
Clark |
Johns |
Sterling |
||
|
Cleary |
Klees |
Stewart |
||
|
Clement |
Kwinter |
Stockwell |
||
|
Coburn |
Levac |
Tascona |
||
|
Colle |
Marland |
Tilson |
||
|
Cordiano |
Martin |
Tsubouchi |
||
|
Crozier |
Martiniuk |
Turnbull |
||
|
Cunningham |
Maves |
Wettlaufer |
||
|
DeFaria |
Mazzilli |
Wilson |
||
|
Di Cocco |
McGuinty |
Witmer |
||
|
Dombrowsky |
McLeod |
Wood |
||
|
Duncan |
Molinari |
Young |
||
|
Dunlop |
Munro |
|||
|
Ecker |
Murdoch |
|||
|
NAYS / CONTRE - 10 |
||||
|
Bisson |
Kennedy |
Peters |
||
|
Churley |
Kormos |
Ruprecht |
||
|
Curling |
Lankin |
|||
|
Hampton |
Marchese |
|||
|
And the Bill was accordingly read the third time and was passed. |
En conséquence, ce projet de loi est lu une troisième fois et adopté. |
|||
|
Petitions |
Pétitions |
|||
Petitions relating to the Northern Health Travel Grant program (Sessional Paper No. P-1) Mr. Brown and Mrs. McLeod.
Petition relating to the Government of Ontario ensuring that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence in prison (Sessional Paper No. P-38) Mr. Gill.
Petition relating to Maintaining the Lord's Prayer in the Parliament of Ontario (Sessional Paper No. P-76) Mrs. Mushinski.
Petitions relating to Banning hunting in Wilderness Provincial Parks (Sessional Paper No. P-82) Mr. Caplan and Mr. Gravelle.
Petition relating to Rescinding the law banning studded tires in Ontario (Sessional Paper No. P-94) Mr. Martin.
Petition relating to the Closure of the Kinsmen/J.S. MacDonald school (Sessional Paper No. P-103) Mr. Cleary.
Petition relating to Increasing The Ontario Disability Support Plan benefits (Sessional Paper No. P-110) Mr. Wood.
Petition relating to Durham College bidding for university status (Sessional Paper No. P-117) Mr. O'Toole.
Petition relating to Enacting Bill 96, The Safe Drinking Water Act, 2000 (Sessional Paper No. P-129) Ms. Churley.
Petition relating to St. Joseph's Hospital, Brantford (Sessional Paper No. P-131) Mr. Levac.
Petition relating to Eradicating hunger of poor children (Sessional Paper No. P-132) Mr. Christopherson.
Petition relating to the Ontario Works Act (Sessional Paper No. P-133) Mrs. Dombrowsky.
The Speaker delivered the following ruling:-
Today during "Reports by Committees", a report was presented by the Chair of the Standing Committee on Estimates relating to an appeal to the Speaker of a ruling made by the Chair of that Committee.
I have carefully reviewed the Report, and the transcript of the Committee's meeting at which the appeal of the Chair's ruling arose.
As I understand the events in the Committee, the Member for Durham (Mr. O'Toole) sought to raise a point of order with respect to an occurrence in the Estimates Committee at a previous meeting on June 13. The Chair of the Committee declined to hear the point of order yesterday, presumably on the ground that Mr. O'Toole's point of order was not raised in a timely manner since it related to a previous meeting. The Chair was not explicit that this was his reason and I have inferred this from the general discussion that took place.
The issue of timeliness is important with respect to points of order. However, the matter raised by the Member for Durham related to his view that a practice decided upon by the Chair at the June 13 meeting was continuing in yesterday's meeting. Therefore, the Member for Durham did raise his point of order in reference to proceedings of the Committee actually in progress.
In any event, the core of the appeal as I see it centres around civil servants from the various ministries being called upon to assist in answering a question posed during consideration of a ministry's Estimates. It is a long-standing practice of our Estimates Committee that ministry staff do attend committee meetings and are permitted, at the request of the respective Minister, to answer technical and non-policy-related questions. Indeed, this specific practice was observed at yesterday's meeting. A point of clarification may be helpful, though.
At the June 13 meeting, the issue of ministry staff responding to questions also arose. At this meeting, the first the Committee held to consider the Estimates of the Ministry of the Environment, the first order of business was for the Minister and the Critics of the 2 opposition parties to make their 30-minute opening statements, followed by the 30-minute reply afforded to the Minister. This process is for the mentioned members to make statements; it does not contemplate that the time is to be used to question the Minister or ministry staff. If this does happen, I see no reason for the member asking questions in this period to expect or to require that answers will be given. It is a statement process, not a question-and-answer process.
Yesterday's meeting saw the committee engaged in the actual consideration of the Votes and Items of the Environment Ministry's Estimates. This is a much more open process, a process of enquiry. It clearly involves an ongoing exchange between the committee members and the Minister accountable for his or her ministry's Estimates. As I said earlier, it is a well-established practice that ministry staff may assist the Minister by answering some of these technical or non-policy questions at the Minister's request.
The role of the Chair comes in here: the Chair must ensure not only that there is an opportunity for oral answers to be offered to questions asked in the Committee, but also that the answers are on-topic and do not unduly consume the time of the committee. However, this is the Chair's role, who is presiding over the committee, and not the role of other members of the committee. The member whose question is being answered may not agree that the response is what he or she wishes to hear, but the goodwill nature of the response from Ministry staff must be taken at face value. Where the Chair feels the discussion has reached an unproductive point or the time being taken is unduly wasteful of the time apportioned to a particular member, the Chair must interrupt and move the discussion along in the interest of fairness to all members of the Committee. This, however, is a function of the Chair's duty to maintain order and secure the advancement of the committee's business. It is not up to the Chair to do so based on his or her own views about the matter being discussed.
For the most part, however, the Chair should need to inject him- or herself into the proceedings of a committee only relatively rarely. The Chair should be an impartial, largely silent observer of the committee's proceedings who has no voice except in the case of disorder, or when an imbalance in, or infringement of, the rights of any member, whether of the minority or of the majority, is apparent.
I therefore concur that the Committee's demonstrated and observed practice of permitting ministry staff to answer questions raised by Committee members is correct.
|
Orders of the Day |
Ordre du Jour |
|
A debate arose on the motion for Second Reading of Bill 91, An Act to require the mandatory reporting of severely damaged vehicles to counter motor vehicle fraud and theft. |
Il s'élève un débat sur la motion portant deuxième lecture du projet de loi 91, Loi exigeant la déclaration obligatoire des véhicules gravement endommagés afin de lutter contre la fraude et le vol des véhicules automobiles. |
|
After some time, the motion was declared carried and the Bill was accordingly read the second time and Ordered for Third Reading. |
Après quelque temps, la motion est déclarée adoptée et en conséquence, ce projet de loi est lu une deuxième fois et ordonné pour la troisième lecture. |
|
The House then adjourned at 6:00 p.m. |
À 18 h, la chambre a ensuite ajourné ses travaux. |
|
6:45 P.M. |
18 H 45 |
|
Orders of the Day |
Ordre du Jour |
|
Debate was resumed on the motion for Second Reading of Bill 88, An Act to promote the use of information technology in commercial and other transactions by resolving legal uncertainties and removing statutory barriers that affect electronic communication. |
Le débat reprend sur la motion portant deuxième lecture du projet de loi 88, Loi visant à promouvoir l'utilisation des technologies de l'information dans les opérations commerciales et autres en éliminant les incertitudes juridiques et les obstacles législatifs qui ont une incidence sur les communications électroniques. |
|
After some time, the motion was declared carried and the Bill was accordingly read the second time and Ordered referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Social Policy. |
Après quelque temps, la motion est déclarée adoptée et en conséquence, ce projet de loi est lu une deuxième fois et déféré au Comité permanent de la justice et des affaires sociales. |
|
Mr. Hudak moved, That the House do now adjourn. |
M. Hudak propose que l'Assemblée ajourne les débats maintenant. |
|
The question, having been put on the motion, was declared carried. |
Cette motion, mise aux voix, est déclarée adoptée. |
|
The House then adjourned at 9:10 p.m. |
À 21 h 10, la chambre a ensuite ajourné ses travaux. |
|
le président GARY CARR Speaker |
|
|
Sessional Papers Presented Pursuant to Standing Order 39(A):- |
Documents Parlementaires Déposés Conformément à l'Article 39(A) du Règlement |
|
Questions Answered (See Sessional Paper No. 5):- Final Answers to Question Number: 12. |
|
|
Responses to Petitions |
Réponses aux Pétitions |
|
Petitions relating to the Government of Ontario ensuring that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence in prison (Sessional Paper No. P-38): (Tabled May 31, 2000) Mr. Tascona. (Tabled May 31, 2000) Mr. Wood. (Tabled June 1, 2000) Mrs. Mushinski. Petition relating to Re-instating previous assessment treatment on facilities to cultural organizations. (Sessional Paper No. P-63): (Tabled May 16, 2000) Mr. Bradley. Petitions relating to Summer camping under the Ministry of Natural Resources (Sessional Paper No. P-104): (Tabled May 30, 2000) Mr. Bisson. (Tabled June 5, 2000) Mr. Bisson. |
|