The House resumed at 8 o’clock, p.m.
Mr. Chairman: Order please.
Mr. V. M. Singer (Downsview): Do you want to be officially notified that you don’t have a quorum?
Hon. M. Birch (Provincial Secretary for Social Development): Mr. Chairman, before you are officially notified that you don’t have a quorum, I’d like to take this opportunity to introduce to you and to those members who are in the House some very fine young men and women who are members of baseball teams in Scarborough East -- the Heron Park baseball club, the Markham Bluffs Softball Association, the Cedar Hill Softball Association, East Guildwood and Curran Hall. Would you welcome these young people.
Mr. Singer: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, could I draw your attention to the fact that there is not a quorum here?
Mr. Chairman: The Minister of the Environment has an announcement.
Mr. Singer: No, there is no quorum.
Mr. Chairman: The Minister of the Environment would like to welcome guests here first.
Hon. W. Newman (Minister of the Environment): Mr. Chairman, with your approval and that of the hon. member for Downsview, I would like to welcome tonight the 1st Ajax Scout Troop from Ajax, Ont., and their leaders. It is nice to see them here tonight to watch the House in operation, and I certainly welcome them and I’m sure you will help me in welcoming them here tonight. Thank you.
Clerk of the House: Mr. Chairman, there is not a quorum present.
Mr. Chairman: Call in the members.
Mr. Chairman ordered that the bells be rung for four minutes.
Mr. Chairman: We now have a quorum.
Hon. E. A. Winkler (Chairman, Management Board of Cabinet): Mr. Chairman, I would like to move that the House sit beyond 10:30, if necessary.
Mr. Chairman: Carried?
Mr. Singer: Oh no, not carried at all, in no way.
Mr. Chairman: Not carried?
Mr. M. Cassidy (Ottawa Centre): On the motion, Mr. Chairman, I would suggest to the House leader that we consider that matter close to 10:30. At that point, the amount of work that has been done and the progress made during the course of the evening should be considered. It’s my impression we quite possibly may finish the supplementary estimates with the normal kind of debate by that time, but I don’t know. I’m sure we could look at the matter then. To do it right now is unnecessary and also aggravating as far as this side of the House is concerned.
Mr. Singer: Mr. Chairman, could I speak to the House leader’s motion?
Mr. J. H. Jessiman (Fort William): The member for Toronto and the Island has spoken.
Mr. Singer: I think the House leader’s motion should be opposed. It’s contrary to the motion we passed this afternoon. If the House leader insists on putting the motion, then we shall oppose it and we shall ask there be a vote on it. There is no reason, to my knowledge, that the 10:30 rule should be abated. If the majority of the House wants to steamroller the thing through, then let the public’s opinion be their guide. If the House leader insists on forcing his motion to a vote, we shall ask for a division of the House and we shall see what happens.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Mr. Chairman, the result of that is inevitable and well known to all of us.
Mr. Singer: If the minister wants to flex his muscles, let him flex them.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Just a moment. The member had the floor. It’s my turn. I would merely like to say, Mr. Chairman --
Mr. Cassidy: The minister is over-sensitive.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: I thought I was being absolutely magnanimous because of the amendment I accepted this afternoon from the member for Downsview. If the debate order is required, Mr. Chairman, I want the members opposite to have every opportunity they want.
Mr. Singer: Not after 10:30 at night.
Mr. J. F. Foulds (Fort Arthur): On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I submit to you that the motion is out of order. You need unanimous consent to revert to motions. Such consent was not asked for and the rules that apply to the House, apply to the committee of the whole House.
Mr. R. D. Kennedy (Peel South): That shows that the member does not know anything about parliamentary procedure.
Mr. Chairman: The member has no point of order. I am putting the motion.
Mr. Cassidy: Will you stop ruining the whole procedure of this House, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Chairman, you haven’t the right to contravene the rules of this House.
Mr. Chairman: Will the member take his seat?
Mr. Foulds: No, I will not take my seat, unless you refer this matter to the standing rules and to the Speaker.
Mr. Chairman: Will the member for Port Arthur take his seat?
Mr. Foulds: No, I will not, until you legitimately look at the point of order that I presented to you.
Mr. Chairman: Will the member for Port Arthur take his seat?
Mr. Foulds: No, I will not, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman: Will the member for Port Arthur take his seat?
Mr. Foulds: No, not until you have looked at the point of order that I have raised.
Mr. Chairman: I have to report the member for Port Arthur to the Speaker.
Mr. Foulds: Fine, go ahead and do that.
Mr. Singer: Call him in.
Mr. Foulds: Call in the Speaker.
Mr. Singer: That is the only alternative you have. Who are you looking at, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Cassidy: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order.
Mr. Singer: Then call in the Speaker. Don’t look at the House leader.
Mr. Cassidy: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman: Will the committee rise and report?
Mr. Cassidy: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Jessiman: Sit down. Call a vote.
Mr. Cassidy: We’ve been through this scene so many times with the House leader.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Oh, don’t give me this stuff.
Mr. Cassidy: If more time is needed, there is all of Wednesday during which this House could meet in order to continue its considerations of the supplementary estimates, starting at 10 o’clock or at 2 o’clock in the afternoon, whichever the government wishes to put forward. We don’t see why we should have to sit past 10:30, or why the House should be forced into this kind of speed-up, when we have a whole day tomorrow to deal with the business of the House. The kind of scene into which the leader of the House puts the Chairman of this House, in connection with the member for Port Arthur, when the member for Port Arthur was making a perfectly legitimate point of order, is just plain unnecessary I appeal to the House leader. Can’t we go back five minutes and start all over again and just go into the consideration of the estimates in the normal way? Is all of this necessary?
Hon. Mr. Winkler: I’m prepared to accept that proposal because I’ve given notice of the motion. I can put it later this evening.
Mr. Chairman: Yes, but at the same time the Chairman has to clear his position.
Mr. Singer: Oh, no, Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, he did not give notice of the motion; he moved it.
Mr. Chairman: Will the member take his seat?
Mr. Singer: No, I won’t. I have my chance, too, Mr. Chairman.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Singer: Now, just don’t wave your hand at me and look over there for guidance.
Mr. Chairman: I am not looking over for guidance.
Mr. Singer: Let me say this, Mr. Chairman. The House leader put a motion. He cannot now change this and say: “I have given a notice of motion.” Either his motion is going to be put to a vote or not. If he wants to withdraw it, that’s fine; if he wants to move it later, that is fine. Now, that’s clear and that’s what you’ve got to do.
Mr. Chairman: And the Chairman’s position is clear. If any member of this House puts a motion before it, it’s the Chairman’s obligation to put the motion before the House. Hon. Mr. Winkler put a motion before the Chairman and it’s my obligation to put it before the House.
Mr. Singer: Fine.
Mr. Chairman: But if I ask the member to take his seat and he refuses three times in a row to take his seat and obey the Chairman’s orders, I have no other recourse but to refer him to the Speaker. Now, if the member for Port Arthur wants to withdraw and apologize for not taking his seat, I won’t put it to the Speaker.
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Chairman, I will not apologize and I will not withdraw. You cannot put a motion unless you have the unanimous consent of the House; you did not ask for that unanimous consent. As I understand the rules, the rules of the House apply to the committee of the whole. All I was asking was for clarification of that rule and for you to put that rule to the Speaker, since clearly you do not know and do not understand it.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Mr. Chairman, I put the motion and you called the motion, and that’s precisely the way I want it.
Mr. Foulds: No, Mr. Chairman, you do not have the right to call that motion. You must seek --
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Under what rule?
Mr. Foulds: -- and the House leader of the government must seek unanimous consent to put such a motion. You did not ask for it, the government did not seek it and I will not let you or the government House leader or anybody else abuse the rules of this House.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Mr. Chairman: If there is anybody abusing the roles of this House it’s the member for Port Arthur. When the Chairman or the Speaker asks anyone to come to order and take his seat, and he refuses, he is abusing the rules of the House.
Mr. Foulds: Have you got them?
Mr. L. C. Henderson (Lambton): He won’t be around very long.
Mr. Chairman: I have no alternative this time but to ask the member for Port Arthur to withdraw his remarks said when he refused to take his seat. The Chairman of the committee asked him to come to order and take his seat, and he refused three times, so I have no recourse but to report to the Speaker and let the Speaker make the judgment as to whether the member for Port Arthur is out of order or whether the Chairman is in order.
Mr. J. E. Stokes (Thunder Bay): You go ahead and do what you have to do.
Mr. Foulds: Go ahead and report to the Speaker.
Mr. Singer: You don’t need a motion to dispatch your duties.
Mr. Chairman: That’s right, I don’t need a motion on it. Call in the Speaker.
Hon. Mr. Winkler moves the committee rise and report.
Motion agreed to.
The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.
Mr. Chairman: Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of the committee of the whole House reports disorder. The member for Port Arthur refused to take his seat when asked to do so by the Chairman.
An hon. member: Shame.
An hon. member: Three times.
Mr. Henderson: He should resign.
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Speaker, we cannot bear --
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Just a moment. Don’t obstruct the Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: The Chairman of the committee reports disorder. I am not sure of the background of the situation. It seems to me that there were certain motions put forward. Would someone elucidate as to what they were? The member for Port Arthur.
Mr. Foulds: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the Chairman was accepting a motion from the House leader that we extend the sitting of the House beyond 10:30.
It was my submission to him, as a point of order, that we cannot revert to motions to extend the House sitting unless there is unanimous consent of the House. Such consent was not sought, and I asked the Chairman to consider that. He refused to consider it and I must admit that I did not take my seat and refused to take my seat, unless he put that matter to you.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Chairman: The Chairman of the committee of the whole House asked the member for Port Arthur to take his seat on three occasions and be refused. So I had no other choice but to report him to you, sir.
Mr. Speaker: It seems to me there are a couple of considerations here. Number one is the motion to sit beyond 10:30. It does not require unanimous consent. It’s a motion of the House, as covered by our standing orders, and we have accepted the practice in this House of accepting it, either with the Chairman in the chair or the Speaker in the chair; that has been established.
Was that the motion that was really under question? It seems to me there are two or three getting mixed up here. Can the hon. House leader elucidate?
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I must say that I did make the motion and the motion was called. The Chairman had already called the motion and asked for the vote.
That is one of the questions. There are two separate issues here to consider. That, as I understand it, is not a precedent and you have elucidated on that point. The other is the conduct of the member, and that you must rule on yourself. I have no jurisdiction.
Mr. Speaker: To take the point that was explained by the House leader, the motion to sit beyond 10:30 does not require unanimous consent; it’s a motion by the House leader -- it says by the government in our orders and I’m not sure which the number is here, but it could be found -- and therefore it’s an ordinary formal motion. Was that motion carried?
Hon. Mr. Winkler: The motion was not fulfilled, because of the interjections of the hon. member.
Mr. Chairman: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Port Arthur rose on a point of order and said the Chairman had no privilege in this House -- that it wasn’t within the standing orders that we had that privilege to put the vote.
I asked the hon. member on three different occasions to take his seat and he disobeyed the Chairman’s orders. This is why I’m asking the Speaker to make a ruling. It is my recommendation that he should ask the member to apologize. He said he won’t apologize. Either he apologizes, or he should be removed from the House.
Mr. Jessiman: He has no respect for anyone. Sit down.
An hon. member: No respect for the House.
Mr. Foulds: When the member gets named Speaker, he can say that to me; and he may or may not have success.
Mr. Cassidy: What a disaster that would be. Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.
Mr. Speaker: It seems to me there are two matters here which have been presented to me. The first being as to whether the motion was in order, I have ruled on that. The second was as to, I think, the refusal of the member for Port Arthur to resume his seat at the request of the Chairman. In that case the Chairman is not empowered to name the member; he must refer to the Speaker to do so, or otherwise.
It seems to me that we should deal with the first one. That seems to be the basis of the difference of opinion, as to whether the motion is in order or whether it’s not in order. The second may look after itself, automatically.
Now that the Speaker is in the chair, I rule again that the motion was in order when the Chairman was in the chair. But now that the Speaker is in the chair, if the hon. House leader wishes to move the motion, then I would be happy to place it and to get us out of this difficulty -- and that would automatically resolve, I think, the other difficulty.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: I thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Before I move the motion, I would like to say that in any ruling I want you to be very generous with the hon. member for Port Arthur, and I’ll tell you why.
I think, for the edification of all concerned, the express purpose of the motion was so that the members of the opposition would have every opportunity this evening of discussing the matters that are before us. And that was the whole total of my intent.
Mr. Cassidy: This evening, but not tomorrow. The government won’t sit tomorrow because it can’t run this place properly.
Hon. Mr. Winkler moves that the House sit beyond 10:30 o’clock, p.m.
Mr. Singer: Can I speak to the motion, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, reluctantly, of course, as we always do, we oppose the motion of the House leader. We believe that the hours of sitting of the House are reasonable; that if we sit and put in a full day’s performance that the hour of 10:30 is sufficient to the day; that we are entitled to debate. It’s unfortunate that the government often orders its business so badly that they get caught up in a rush.
Mr. Stokes: That’s exactly the case.
Mr. Singer: I’m sorry.
Mr. Speaker: Let’s deal with the motion.
Mr. Singer: We are caught up in the rush. Many, many members are anxious to get away on Christmas holiday, which is natural, logical and so on. But we don’t order the business, Mr. Speaker. We don’t order the business --
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Speaker: Order please.
Mr. Singer: We believe that the matters that come before us deserve full debate and full consideration from all members of the House. When half a billion dollars in supplementary estimates come here, they deserve ample consideration from all members of the House. Therefore, sir, we are going to oppose this motion, because we believe matters of importance like this should be dealt with in the normal sitting hours.
An hon. member: What is the motion?
Mrs. M. Campbell (St. George): To sit beyond 10:30.
Mr. Singer: There is no point in working the members to exhaustion, so that their minds cannot function properly and cope with the clever ministers -- the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Stewart), and all those other fellows who are undoubtedly going to be much more alert, because they have many more advisers and secretaries and executive assistants and so on. We have to do it by ourselves.
So we think 10:30 is a reasonable hour. We will vote against the motion put by the House leader.
Mrs. Campbell: Right.
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Speaker, on a point of order.
Mr. Speaker: The hon. member for Thunder Bay.
Mr. Stokes: I would like to speak briefly to the motion, Mr. Speaker. To give you a little background, we had agreed to try to complete the supplementary estimates before the day was over, and we consider that a day in this Legislature is over at 10:30 p.m.
The House leader came over and asked the House leader of the Liberal Party and myself if we would agree to meet at 10 o’clock on Thursday morning because the cabinet had three different meetings tomorrow and the House wouldn’t be able to sit to discuss what was before it. We had given unanimous consent on behalf of both parties over here to sit at 10 o’clock on Thursday morning because of the inability of the government to get sufficient cabinet ministers in here to conduct the business tomorrow.
We had agreed to do that. Now, because he feels the pressure is on him, he is asking for unanimous consent for a motion to sit beyond 10:30 this evening. We think we have bent over backwards on this side of the House to accommodate the wishes of the House leader, and for him to come in at this late hour and ask for something even more than that is just something we are not prepared to accept. We, too, will vote against the motion.
Mr. Speaker: The member for Port Arthur.
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect, I hesitate to rise on another point of order, but in fact the government House leader is out of order with his motion to you. I call to your attention rule 33(c), which says quite clearly that no motion shall be prefaced by recitals or preambles. The government House leader quite definitely gave a preamble to his motion and I submit to you, with the greatest of respect, that it is out of order.
Mr. Speaker: I rule that out. I might say that I had requested the House leader to provide some elucidation on the matter.
Mr. S. Lewis (Scarborough West): I would like to stand on a very brief point of order, speaking directly to the motion. On at least three occasions in the last two weeks the House leader has assured me personally that one of the things he would not engage in again, and certainly not in this session, was late night sittings. He said it quite explicitly. He made it virtually a guarantee. He said it as a friend. He said it as a colleague in the Legislature. He said -- and some of us believed him -- that this was the way he was going to play the rest of the session. I really don’t think that at this point he should be imposing an extended sitting, since we can encompass all the work by the end of the week anyway.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member has said is absolutely correct. What I have said this evening is that I moved the motion, in order to give the members of the opposition full opportunity --
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Well, I did, and I did it in all sincerity. It was not my intention to provoke or to abuse anybody else.
I have done this very wilfully, all through this tremendous experience of mine of trying not to sit late hours. I don’t intend to and I don’t want to, but let me say this: I had an agreement with both of them this evening about Thursday morning, which I appreciate; I think that is very high-class. But I also had an agreement last night about today, until the member for Downsview stepped into the picture and --
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Now, now. I want to say --
Mr. Foulds: The government House leader does not have an agreement with this party.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: No, don’t do that. I have every respect for the opposition House leader -- more respect than I have for any of his colleagues, because they don’t live up to it. We made that deal.
An hon. member: All of us?
Mr. Singer: Baloney.
Interjections by hon. members.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: I am speaking the truth -- Mr. Speaker, I have the floor.
Mr. Singer: That’s a bunch of baloney.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Lewis: Is the press party still on?
An hon. member: He is trying to get back to it.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Will the hon. House leader please take his seat?
Mr. Singer: When the minister was bad he was very, very bad and when he didn’t get his own way he sulked.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I think we started this day off in a very friendly atmosphere and I hope we will finish it the same way. I wonder if --
An hon. member: It is the fault of the press gallery.
Mr. Singer: The Premier (Mr. Davis) doesn’t like the press either.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. In view of the general sentiments expressed here tonight, I wonder if the House leader might give an indication of what hour he might consider reasonable and perhaps we can resolve it that way.
Mr. Singer: The hour is 10:30.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. If it is agreeable to go beyond 10:30 --
Mr. Lewis: If the House leader was doing it for our benefit, it was wilfully derogatory. We prefer not to take the benefit. Why doesn’t he withdraw?
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. We have the motion before us.
Interjection by an hon. member.
Mr. Speaker: Thank you very much, but order, please. I think we should all reflect upon ourselves.
The motion is that this House sit beyond 10:30 this evening.
The House divided on Hon. Mr. Winkler’s motion, which was approved on the following vote:
Ayes |
Nays |
Apps Auld Beckett Bernier Birch Brunelle Carruthers Downer Drea Evans Ewen Gilbertson Grossman Havrot Henderson Hodgson (Victoria-Haliburton) Hodgson (York North) Irvine Jessiman Johnston Kennedy Lane Leluk MacBeth Maeck Meen Miller Morningstar Newman (Ontario South) Nixon (Dovercourt) Nuttall Reilly Rhodes Rollins Root Scrivener Smith (Simcoe East) Smith (Hamilton Mountain) Taylor (Price Edward-Lennox) Turner Villeneuve Walker Wardle Wells White Winkler Wiseman -- 47. |
Bounsall Breithaupt Bullbrook Burr Campbell Cassidy Deans Dukszta Edighoffer Ferrier Foulds Gaunt Germa Haggerty Laughren Lawlor Lewis Newman (Windsor-Walkerville) Renwick Riddell Roy Ruston Sargent Singer Smith (Nipissing) Spence Stokes Worton Young -- 29. |
Clerk of the House: Mr. Speaker, the “ayes” are 47, the “nays” 29.
Mr. Speaker: I declare the motion carried.
There is one other matter to be dealt with. That is the matter which was referred to Mr. Speaker earlier, and that was the fact that after repeated requests from the Chairman of the committee, the member for Port Arthur had refused to take his seat.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Speaker will deal with it.
I think in the spirit of the season that the member far Port Arthur should realize that he was somewhat in the wrong, and I would await his next action.
Mr. Lewis: What do you mean you will wait? You will wait a long time.
Mr. Foulds: Mr. Speaker, with the greatest of respect I cannot, in all conscience, make a retraction.
Interjection by an hon. member.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Foulds: If I may rise on a point of personal privilege. I submitted a point of order to the Chairman of the committee of the whole House, the member for York North (Mr. W. Hodgson), who would not hear that point of order. I asked him if he would --
Hon. A. Grossman (Provincial Secretary for Resources Development): Apologize carefully.
Mr. Lewis: Why doesn’t that minister gerrymander another riding to save his seat?
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Speaker would like to hear the circumstances.
Mr. Foulds: I rose on a point of order that a motion cannot be put without unanimous consent of the House. As my authority, I refer you to May, chapter 28, the section requiring period of notice: “No positive rule has been laid down as to the minimum time which shall elapse between the notice and the motion, but some time is generally assigned to motions that may provoke debate.”
I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that the motion put by the government House leader was bound to provoke debate; yet no notice was given.
I refer you, further, in May, in the same chapter: “The House can waive the right of require notice for a substantive motion if the motion is moved under the sanction of the Chair and with the general concurrence of the House.” I was about not to give that general concurrence, Mr. Speaker.
I further submit, and quote from May: “The objection of any member is enough to prevent the waiver of notice as, for instance, in the case of a motion” -- and May cites a motion for an 11 o’clock sitting on a day other than Friday. I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that I submitted that point of order in good conscience, in order to protect --
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Lewis: You are a throwback. I’m a Neanderthal.
Hon. J. R. Rhodes (Minister of Transportation and Communications): You will be thrown out.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Foulds: In our own rules it does state quite clearly that the committee of the whole House is governed by the same rules which govern the House, except for speaking on motions. So, I submit to you that in fact my point of order was in order. Whether or not you judge in favour or oppose it, I’m willing to accept the judgment. The Chairman of the committee of the whole House refused to consider the question; refused to hear me.
Mr. Speaker: It has been previously ruled that the motion was in order and did not require the unanimous consent of the House.
Now, on this particular motion I’ve no reason to change my mind at the moment. I will reconsider, and at the moment I will hold it in abeyance, because I want to make certain that I am correct. But that was my original ruling and I have no reason to think I am wrong, but I shall check into it at a more calm moment.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please. That motion has been carried and I will report on the other point at the first opportunity.
An. hon. member: Do we sit all day tomorrow?
Mr. J. E. Bullbrook (Sarnia): I want to wish yon all a very merry Christmas.
Clerk of the House: Order for committee of supply.
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES, MINISTRY OF HOUSING (CONTINUED)
Mr. Lewis moves the committee rise and report.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Lewis: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw the motion if the House leader indicates that we will rise at 10:30. Otherwise, I move that my motion stands. I won’t participate in this. And I like the House leader, on occasion.
Hon. Mr. Grossman: Like when he agrees with you.
Mr. Chairman: The member for Scarborough West has no point of order.
Mr. Lewis: No what?
Mr. Stokes: No right to move a motion?
Mr. Chairman: Pardon?
Mr. Stokes: Has he no right to move a motion?
Mr. Chairman: Yes, he has.
Mr. Lewis: I have every right to move a motion on this --
Interjection by an hon. member.
Mr. Lewis: Absolute right; every right in the world. I have moved that the committee rise.
Mr. Bullbrook: Anybody want to speak?
Mr. Chairman: Order, please. I have a motion before me. It is moved by the member for Scarborough West that the committee rise and report.
The committee divided on Mr. Lewis’s motion that the committee rise and report, which was negated on the following vote:
Clerk of the House: Mr. Chairman, the “ayes” are 29, the “nays” 43.
Mr. Chairman: I declare the motion lost.
Hon. Mr. Winkler moves the committee rise and report.
Mr. Lewis: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, that motion can’t be moved. There has to be business transacted in the interim.
I have just transacted that business, now the House leader can move his motion.
Mr. Chairman: Hon. Mr. Winkler moves the committee rise and report.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Lewis: Hear, hear!
The House resumed, Mr. Speaker in the chair.
Mr. Chairman: Mr. Speaker, the committee of the whole House begs to report certain resolutions and asks for leave to sit again.
Report agreed to.
Hon. Mr. Winkler moves that the House will sit tomorrow, Dec. 18, at the usual hour of 2 p.m.
Mr. Speaker: Shall this motion carry?
Some hon. members: No.
Mr. Speaker: Those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”
Those opposed will please say “nay.”
In my opinion the “ayes” have it.
Motion agreed to.
Mr. Lewis: Mr. Speaker, do you ask yourself why you come in here?
Hon. Mr. Winkler: Mr. Speaker, in the interim during the last vote, the House leaders met and reached certain conclusions. One, there will be no question period tomorrow when the House resumes its sitting at 2 o’clock --
Mr. E. Sargent (Grey-Bruce): No way.
Interjections by hon. members.
Mr. Speaker: Order, please.
Hon. Mr. Winkler: -- it will deal directly with the consideration of estimates. And I must say for the edification of the members that we have agreed on a certain conclusion to the business of the House in this week.
Hon. Mr. Winkler moves the adjournment of the House.
Motion agreed to.
The House adjourned at 10:25 o’clock, p.m.