CONTENTS
Wednesday 5 December 1990
Organization
Adjournment
STANDING COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
Chair: Huget, Bob (Sarnia NDP)
Vice-Chair: Waters, Daniel (Muskoka-Georgian Bay NDP)
Arnott, Ted (Wellington PC)
Charlton, Brian A. (Hamilton Mountain NDP)
Churley, Marilyn (Riverdale NDP)
Cleary, John C. (Cornwall L)
Dadamo, George (Windsor-Sandwich NDP)
Jordan, Leo (Lanark-Renfrew PC)s
Klopp, Paul (Huron NDP)
Offer, Steven (Mississauga North L)
Ramsay, David (Timiskaming L)
Wood, Len (Cochrane North NDP)
Substitutions: Silipo, Tony (Dovercourt NDP) for Mr Klopp
Clerk: Brown, Harold
Staff: Luskie, Lorraine, Research Officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 1536 in committee room 1.
ORGANIZATION
Clerk of the Committee: If I could have your attention, honourable members, it is my duty to call upon you to elect a Chair. I will now entertain nominations.
Mr Offer: I nominate Bob Huget as Chair.
Clerk of the Committee: Are there any further nominations? If not, I declare Mr Huget is Chair.
The Chair: It is now my pleasure to receive nominations for the position of Vice-Chair.
Mr Dadamo: I would like to nominate Dan Waters as Vice-Chair.
The Chair: If there are there no further nominations, he is Vice-Chair.
We will now look at appointing a subcommittee and our clerk, Mr Brown, would like to make a few comments on what the subcommittee is all about. I am sure those of use who are new will appreciate those comments.
Clerk of the Committee: Just to give you a little bit of an idea of what the subcommittee does for you members who have not been through this exercise before, the subcommittee is established under the standing orders to look after matters involving agenda, to schedule meetings pursuant to the authority given to it through the House, and to look after other matters involving the committee, such as the preparation of reports, instructions to myself as clerk and to the research officer, and to bring to the attention of the committee any other business matters that the committee needs to be aware of. It consists of four persons: the Chair as Chair and one member from each recognized party.
The Chair: Thanks, Harold. I will now receive a motion to nominate a subcommittee on business.
Mr Waters: I would like to move that a subcommittee on the committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair or at the request of any member thereof to consider and report to the committee on business of the committee; that substitution be permitted on the subcommittee; that the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting; and that the subcommittee be composed of the following, which is the Chair and a member of each of the three parties.
The Chair: Would you name the people on the subcommittee, Dan, please?
Mr Waters: The subcommittee would be the Chair, Mr Huget, myself from the New Democratic Party, and I do not have --
Mr Miclash: I have a nomination for the Liberal Party, that being David Ramsay.
The Chair: I would like the motion considered in the following fashion. Mr Waters has made a motion that has identified myself as part of the subcommittee and Mr Waters. Could we deal with that motion? Is that agreeable? Agreed.
Now we can deal with the motion from Mr Miclash. Agreed.
Mr Jordan: I would like to nominate Ted Arnott to the subcommittee.
The Chair: Agreed. The subcommittee on business therefore consists of myself, Mr Waters, Mr Ramsay and Mr Arnott.
Recognizing that Mr Offer and others are in a bit of a bind today for time, I would like to provide an opportunity for the researcher to comment on what the committee has done in the past, if we could just do that very briefly. There will be other opportunities to do this, but I would like some of that information conveyed to the committee, if you would not mind.
Ms Luskie: I am Lorraine Luskie and I have a one-page handout that Harold will pass out that just lists the kinds of reports and major projects that I drafted for the committee's consideration during the period January 1988 until June 1990. It gives you some indication of the kind of work that research provides for this committee.
The Chair: The clerk of our committee has a few announcements he would like to make at this time.
Clerk of the Committee: The main thing I would like to draw to your attention is an item you will find in the folder in front of you. It is a memo to you concerning notification of committee meetings. You will receive on Thursday afternoons, as members of this committee, if the committee is meeting the following week, a notice setting out the time and place of the meeting.
Also, every day you receive Orders and Notices, and the committee meetings for that day and the remainder of that week appear in that, so that is another source you may want to check. Every day you receive a business sheet and also on that sheet you will find the committee meetings for that day.
A fourth source of information about your committee is found on bulletin boards throughout the building on the previously mentioned notices, and you may wish to check there if you do not know whether your committee is meeting.
In special circumstances -- short notice or any changes -- my office will attempt to get in touch with your office to advise you appropriately, but in normal circumstances we would not be phoning your office to let you know about the committee meeting.
Mr Offer: If I might, Mr Chair, either to you or through you to the clerk, we will be meeting on Monday. Is there anything scheduled for discussion on our next regular meeting, which I understand would probably be Monday?
The Chair: At this point there is not. However, that may change, and I will advise the members of the committee as quickly as possible.
Mr Charlton: It might be useful as well to point out that Orders and Notices will indicate matters that have been referred to the committee by the House. Members may from time to time just want to keep an eye on that.
Ms Churley: Just in terms of the timing, are you saying that we do not have a day yet? I am sorry. I must admit I was thinking about something and did not hear. You do not have a day. We do not know which day we will be meeting yet.
The Chair: We have scheduled days of Monday and Wednesday. At this point Mr Offer was wondering whether we were going to meet on Monday. I said that at this point we are not on Monday; however, we will check that out and in fact that may change. We will notify you as quickly as we can if we are going to meet on Monday.
Is there any other business before the committee?
Mr Arnott: For the purposes of standing order 123, I wish to table a matter for a 12-hour designation and I will read it as this time.
For the purposes of standing order 123, I request that the subcommittee on committee business meet to consider a report to the committee on the following matter to be designated for consideration by the committee:
The current status of measures being undertaken by the Ontario government to prevent and control the spread of invasive flora, fauna and other organisms throughout Ontario's natural environment -- in particular the prevention and control of the European zebra mussel (Dreissena polymorpha) in the Great Lakes and throughout Ontario's inland waterways, and the prevention and control of the spread of the purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria) weed throughout Ontario's wetlands.
The Chair: I would request a recess for the subcommittee to meet and deal with this issue and reconvene whenever that is appropriate.
Clerk of the Committee: It is up to the subcommittee as to how fast we can deal with it. Half an hour or an hour?
The Chair: I believe an hour.
Mr Offer: Mr Chairman, the person who was just nominated to the subcommittee from the Liberal Party is not available at this point in time. I am wondering, on the basis of standing order 123(b) or something of that nature, whether the meeting of the subcommittee can be put off until the call of the Chair. We could probably do this even tomorrow, or whenever. Is that a possibility?
The Chair: Is there a possibility of a substitution on the subcommittee?
Mr Offer: Sure.
Ms Churley: Can I ask a question? Or a rule first, and then I want to ask a question about process here. I do not quite understand the process that was introduced here. Can you explain for a few minutes how issues are brought to this committee for consideration, because I am not clear on the process in terms of how that was introduced.
The Chair: Mr Brown will explain that procedure to you.
Ms Churley: Thank you.
Clerk of the Committee: Under the standing orders, specifically 123, a member of the subcommittee can designate a matter which he wishes to have considered by the committee.
Mr Charlton: Any member of the committee.
Clerk of the Committee: No, it is --
Mr Charlton: It has to be considered by the subcommittee.
Clerk of the Committee: The designation has to be made by a member of the subcommittee. The matter is taken under consideration by the subcommittee and the subcommittee is required to fulfil certain obligations in considering it.
For example, the subcommittee would consider the matter to be considered by the committee, the time to be allocated for the consideration of that matter up to 12 hours and the date when the matter should be taken into consideration by the committee. The subcommittee also considers the names of any witnesses who will be invited to appear before the committee. That subcommittee report is then made to the committee and, when that report is made to the committee, it is deemed adopted by the committee.
The member making the designation, in this case Mr Arnott, is required to indicate the matter to be considered. It is also up to the member making the designation to indicate the amount of time to be allotted to the matter. It is up to the subcommittee to determine when the consideration by the committee should start. It is also up to the subcommittee who the witnesses would be who are invited or called.
The matter designated in this manner is subordinate only to government legislation that has been referred to the committee. If there is government legislation referred to the committee, then this matter is postponed until that government legislation has been concluded.
I guess the problem being confronted at this point in time is the fact that it is necessary that the subcommittee report be made to the committee outside the last eight days of the sessional sitting this month.
Mr Offer: Clerk, would you give us with some degree of certainty when the last day would be available for such a report by the subcommittee to be received by this committee?
Clerk of the Committee: Without special arrangements, it would be today. The special arrangements to which I refer would be the fact that the committee is not authorized to sit tomorrow. But this is the week it would have to be considered.
Mr Charlton: Can we have a copy of the motion available?
The Chair: Mr Charlton moves that the committee recess while the subcommittee meets to consider this matter and that the committee reconvene to hear the report of the subcommittee this afternoon.
Motion agreed to.
The Chair: I would say that 5 o'clock would be an appropriate time for us to meet.
The committee recessed at 1559.
1724
The Chair: I am pleased to present the report of the subcommittee on committee business.
"The subcommittee met on Wednesday S December 1990 pursuant to standing order 123 to consider a report to the committee on the following matter designated by Mr Arnott for consideration by the committee:
"The current status of measures being undertaken by the Ontario government to prevent and control the spread of invasive flora and fauna and other organisms throughout Ontario's natural environment -- in particular the prevention and control of the European zebra mussel in the Great Lakes and throughout Ontario's inland waterways, and the prevention and control of the spread of the purple loosestrife weed throughout Ontario's wetlands.
"This matter to be considered for a period of 12 hours.
"It was agreed that the proposal by Mr Arnott be considered by the committee as follows:
"That the public hearings be commenced at a time to be determined by the whips; if there is government legislation referred to the committee, then this matter should be considered at the first possible date upon completion of the government legislation;
"That the committee invite the following to appear: the Federation of Ontario Naturalists; the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters; Ontario Hydro; Ontario Cottagers' Association; representative, Ministry of Natural Resources; representative, Great Lakes Institute; representative, Department of Fisheries Canada; representative, Ontario Marina Operators; representative, city of Niagara Falls; representative, Association of Conservation Authorities of Ontario; representative, Association of Municipalities of Ontario; representative, Ontario Petroleum Association; representative, Detroit-Edison, and others to be determined by the subcommittee;
"and authority be given to the subcommittee to make any necessary changes to this list and to allocate the time for each appointment of each witness as may be required, and to ensure the schedule allows time for the committee to consider the final draft of the report;
"That the subcommittee be authorized to give direction to the research officer writing the report and to give their approval to the final draft of that report which would be submitted to the full committee; and
"That the Chair be authorized to table the report in the House upon receipt of the final approved draft."
Is this report deemed accepted by the committee?
Mr Charlton: So deemed.
The committee adjourned at 1728.