Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay / -Timmins-Baie James
ND)
Mrs Claudette Boyer (Ottawa-Vanier L)
Mr Brian Coburn (Carleton-Gloucester PC)
Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / -Nord PC)
Mr Raminder Gill (Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale PC)
Mr Pat Hoy (Chatham-Kent Essex L)
Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York ND)
Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey PC)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr Bob Wood (London West / -Ouest PC)
Mr David Young (Willowdale PC)
Clerk / Greffière
Ms Anne Stokes
Staff / Personnel
Ms Susan Klein, legislative counsel
The committee met at 1004 in committee room
1.
Clerk of the Committee
(Ms Anne Stokes): Good morning, honourable members. The
Vice-Chair and the Chair are both absent this morning, so it is
my duty now to call for elections for an Acting Chair. Are there
any nominations?
Mr Gilles Bisson
(Timmins-James Bay): I nominate Pat Hoy.
Clerk of the
Committee: Mr Hoy is nominated. Are there any other
nominations? Seeing none, Mr Hoy is Acting Chair for this
morning.
1264030 ONTARIO INC. ACT, 2000
Consideration of Bill Pr21,
An Act to revive 1264030 Ontario Inc.
The Acting Chair (Mr
Pat Hoy): Good morning. I'll call this meeting to order
and call Bill Pr21, An Act to revive 1264030 Ontario Inc. Mr
Bartolucci would like to make some opening comments.
Mr Rick Bartolucci
(Sudbury): I appreciate the opportunity to make very
brief comments. This is an act to revive this company. We have a
teleconference with the lawyer representing the two individuals.
They appear to have followed all the rules and regulations that
set out the requirements to revive this. So I turn it back over
to you, Chair. If there are any questions, I believe we have, via
teleconference, Mr Lacroix.
Mr André
Lacroix: Yes, I'm here.
Mr Bob Wood (London
West): Have any objections been received to this
bill?
The Acting
Chair: I don't believe there have been.
Mr Wood: Do
you know that?
Mr
Bartolucci: There have been no objections received. Mr
Lacroix, can you substantiate that?
Mr Lacroix:
There have been no objections received here either.
M. Gilles Bisson
(Timmins-James Bay) : Bonjour, monsieur Lacroix. C'est
Gilles Bisson, député provincial de
Timmins-Baie-James.
Je voulais savoir-on a
seulement devant nous ce projet de loi-pourquoi vous avez
changé le nom de votre compagnie.
M.
Lacroix : Je vais vous répondre assez
brièvement. Ces gens-là ont engagé un avocat en
janvier 1998 pour incorporer une compagnie et ils lui ont
versé des argents. L'avocat leur a remis les articles tels
quels, 1264030. Sur la base des articles, ils ont
procédé à opérer la compagnie, leur business
avec la compagnie. C'est seulement en 1998, lorsque le comptable
a fait le premier rapport, qu'ils ont été informés
que la compagnie avait été dissoute.
La raison pour la
dissolution, qui normalement est facile à renouveler, c'est
que le chèque qu'il avait soumis pour payer les frais n'a
pas été honoré. Alors, apparemment c'est une
raison qui exige que la compagnie soit renouvelée par un
acte de parlement.
M. Bisson :
Donc, la seule manière de résoudre votre problème
est en travers.
M.
Lacroix : C'est ce que j'ai fait là. Oui.
M. Bisson :
OK. Nous, le NPD, n'avons pas d'objections. Je suis sûr que
Mme Martel n'a pas d'objections.
M.
Lacroix : Vous êtes bien aimable. Merci.
M. Bisson :
Puis, la business va bien dans votre coin ?
M.
Lacroix : Ce n'est pas si mal, monsieur Bisson.
C'est peut-être même un peu mieux que dans votre
coin.
M. Bisson :
Dieu merci.
The Acting
Chair: Are there any other questions? Mr Lacroix, do you
have any other remarks?
Mr Lacroix:
No. I think that these people were not aware of what had happened
to them. The solicitor involved is no longer in practice; he
either resigned or was disbarred. So they faced the reality of
going through this process and will appreciate the result.
The Acting
Chair: Let me say that there has been no written
submission or question from the government on this particular
bill, for the record. Are we ready to vote?
Shall sections 1 to 3 carry?
Carried.
Shall the preamble carry?
Carried.
Shall the title carry?
Carried.
Shall the bill carry?
Carried.
Shall I report the bill to
the House? Agreed.
Mr Bisson:
Before we go to the other bill, I just have something I'd like to
raise, once we're out of this vote and before we go to the other
one.
1010
The Acting
Chair: Thank you, Mr Lacroix, for your input this
morning. Mr Bisson.
Mr Bisson:
It's just on the issue of teleconferencing. I understand why this
was done this morning, and obviously it didn't affect the outcome
of the vote, but I just want to put on the record that I'm not as
comfortable as maybe others are when it comes to utilizing
teleconferencing for these
kinds of things. I find it takes away from the dynamics of being
able to look somebody in the eye. The other thing is, it was
fairly difficult to understand what Mr Lacroix was saying. You
really had to strain through the process. I just want to put it
on the record this is not the preferred way of doing things. I
don't want this becoming a habit.
The Acting
Chair: Thank you for your comments.
HURON UNIVERSITY COLLEGE ACT, 2000
Consideration of Bill Pr24,
An Act respecting Huron University College.
The Acting
Chair: The next order of business is Bill Pr24, An Act
respecting Huron University College.
Mr Wood: Mr
Chair, this is a bill to alter the organizational and
administrative structures of Huron College and to change the name
to Huron University College. We have with us today Mr Grant
Barker, who can perhaps come forward and identify himself for the
purposes of Hansard. As far as we know, no objections have come
forward to the bill.
Mr Grant
Barker: My name is Grant Barker. I am counsel to the law
firm of Siskind, Cromarty, Ivey and Dowler. I am also a member of
the executive board of Huron College and have chaired the ad hoc
committee on the amendment to the Huron College Act.
Mr Wood: The
two of us would be pleased to answer any questions there may be
from the committee members.
Mr Bisson:
What exactly are we doing in this bill?
Mr Wood:
What we're doing is changing the organizational and
administrative structures of the college, as set out in the bill,
and changing the name, which is proposed to be Huron University
College.
Mr Bisson:
Just a name change, basically?
Mr Wood: A
name change and administrative procedures change.
Mr Bisson: I
take it because it was created by an act of legislation-college
name or something?
Mr Wood: I'm
sorry, I didn't hear.
Mr Bisson:
The reason we have to bring this through a private bill process
is because it was originally created under a bill with the
Legislature?
Mr Wood:
Correct. The name and the procedures are mandated by law and now,
to change them, you have to change the law.
Mr Bisson:
What are the substantive differences in the procedures that you
want to change? Is there anything substantive?
Mr Barker:
There are two or three items that we are proposing to change in
this legislation, the first being that we want to increase the
size of the executive board, or board of directors, from eight to
12. Second, we are currently restricted in that our board of
directors must come from the diocese of Huron. Our college has a
theological history. The diocese of Huron encompasses several
counties in southwestern Ontario. Our desire is that we may go
outside that geographic area to select our directors.
We have also attempted to
provide that our board of directors and members of our college
are appointed for four-year terms rather than the two- and
three-year terms that are now provided, and that the executive
board is entitled to determine by bylaw the length of time that
its chair sits. It is now fixed at four years. We find that
chairs cannot usually serve for that length of time, so we want
to allow some flexibility in that. In addition to that is the
name change that we are requesting.
Mr Bisson:
Two quick questions: In reverse order, the first one is in regard
to fixing the term at four years. How often would that person be
able to be reappointed once appointed? Is there a limit on
terms?
Mr Barker:
Yes, three consecutive terms.
Mr Bisson:
So a total of 12 years.
Mr Barker:
Yes.
Mr Bisson:
The second question is, is moving from a board of eight to 12
because there's a higher enrolment in the college, it's bigger
than it was originally created at? Is this the reasoning?
Mr Barker:
Not primarily. There's a desire to increase the number of
directors. Recognizing that directors serve in a voluntary
capacity, we need a larger base from which to hold meetings. We
can't always get a sufficient number of people when we're
restricted to eight.
Mr Bisson:
Would your quorum size change?
Mr Barker:
The quorum would be a majority of those.
Mr Bisson:
Do you get any provincial funding? I don't think you do.
Mr Barker:
Yes, we do. The annual budget of the college is $10 million, of
which 31% is funded by government.
Mr Bisson:
So they fall under the Council of Regents then, as well, under
the larger provincially body as well.
Mr Barker:
Yes.
Mr Wood:
This is not a community college. This is affiliated with the
University of Western Ontario. When you say the Council of
Regents, you're thinking of the community college Council of
Regents. I don't think they fall under that.
Mr Bisson:
So they fall under what auspices?
Mr Wood:
They're affiliated with the University of Western Ontario so
they're part of the university system. If the Council of Regents
you're referring to is the community college Council of
Regents-
Mr Bisson:
So the degrees are actually coming under the name of the other
university?
Mr Wood:
They're affiliated with Western.
Mr Barker:
Huron has degree-granting privileges in theology. Those
privileges have been deferred to the University of Western
Ontario. Huron gives courses in liberal arts and social sciences.
It does not have degree-granting authority. Those degrees are
granted by UWO.
Mrs Claudette Boyer
(Ottawa-Vanier): I guess Mr Wood asked at a different
point the question I wanted to ask. Basically, it was never a
community college?
Mr Barker:
No, Huron College is the founding college of the University of
Western Ontario, founded primarily as a theological college, but
pursuant to its affiliation agreement with the University of
Western Ontario, the university actually grants the theological
degrees but has permitted Huron College to provide courses, as I
said, in liberal arts and social sciences.
Mrs Boyer:
That would give a university degree?
Mr Barker:
Yes.
Mrs Boyer:
OK, that answers that my question.
The Acting
Chair: Mr Young.
Mr Young: My
question was answered by Mr Barker and by Mr Wood, so I have
nothing further.
Mr Raminder Gill
(Bramalea-Gore-Malton-Springdale): I think one of the
analogies might be that close to where I live there's Erindale
College, or there was Erindale College, which was, again, a
satellite attachment to the U of T. Then it was later changed,
perhaps for the same reasons, to University of Toronto,
Mississauga campus. I think there's a similarity there. Is that
correct?
Mr Barker:
I'm not sure of the reference you made. The desire to change the
name from Huron College to Huron University College is primarily
the confusion that exists in calling yourself a college and being
related to a community college as opposed to offering university
degrees.
Huron is a college that is
now recruiting students in China. We have a Beijing program at
the college. We recruit a number of students internationally.
There's always a difficulty in explaining what you are if you
cannot call yourself a university, so our primary focus is to
have "university" in our name.
Mr Gill: I
can understand that, especially in terms of foreign context.
Mr Barker:
Yes.
Mr Gill:
Foreign students, who pay substantially more money, I
understand-
Mr Barker:
Yes, they're full-paying tuition.
Mr Gill:
-are more attuned to saying, "I'm going to university," rather
than a college, so I can understand the difference.
Mr Bisson:
Just one last question to research: In regard to moving from
eight to 12 as far as the size of the board, I take it that's not
out of step with any other universities out there. I take it that
wouldn't create any kind of precedent or problem?
Ms Susan
Klein: No, I don't think it's significant.
Mr Barker: I
suspect that most universities would have boards that are
probably 20 to 25. They're very substantial boards.
The Acting
Chair: We have received no comment from the Ministry of
Training, Colleges and Universities, certainly nothing in the
negative. Are there any other questions? Any other comments, Mr
Barker?
Mr Barker: I
have none, thank you.
The Acting
Chair: Thank you for being with us here today.
The Acting
Chair: Are we ready to vote?
Shall sections 1 through 18
carry? Carried.
Shall the preamble carry?
Carried.
Shall the title carry?
Carried.
Shall the bill carry?
Carried.
Shall I report the bill to
the House? Agreed.
Mr Bisson:
I just have one other question, to the clerk of the committee in
regard to the work that was being done by, I believe, leg counsel
or research with regard to some of the regulations the committee
was working on. What's the status on that?
Clerk of the
Committee: I've been in contact with the Ministry of the
Attorney General, and next week, on Wednesday morning, we will
have a meeting scheduled with a representative from that ministry
to clarify or discuss the response.
Mr Bisson:
Good. That can be expected next week?
Clerk of the
Committee: Yes.
The Acting
Chair: Any other business?
Mr Bisson:
Well, I think it would be very interesting for us to travel to,
let's say, Switzerland or somewhere to study parliamentary
procedures of regulations and private bills in that fair country.
I'm just wondering how members of the government feel about
this?
Mr Young:
Will that interfere with our trip to France?
