CONTENTS
Thursday 11 December 1997
Appointment of subcommittee
Subcommittee report
STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
Chair / Président
Mr Bernard Grandmaître (Ottawa East /-Est L)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre /-Centre L)
Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton PC)
Mr Gary Fox (Prince Edward-Lennox-South Hastings / Prince Edward-Lennox-Hastings-Sud PC)
Mr Bernard Grandmaître (Ottawa East / -Est L)
Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Prescott and Russell / Prescott et Russell L)
Ms Shelley Martel (Sudbury East / -Est ND)
Mr Richard Patten (Ottawa Centre / -Centre L)
Mr Peter L. Preston (Brant-Haldimand PC)
Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Simcoe Centre / -Centre PC)
Mr Terence H. Young (Halton Centre / -Centre)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and The Islands / -Kingston et Les Îles L)
Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York ND)
Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls PC)
Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes
Mr Erik Peters, Provincial Auditor
Clerk Pro Tem/ Greffier par intérim
Mr Todd Decker
Staff / Personnel
Ms Elaine Campbell, research officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 1003 in room 228.
APPOINTMENT OF SUBCOMMITTEE
The Acting Chair (Mr John Gerretsen): I'd like to call to order the standing committee on public accounts. I've been asked to act as your Chair since both our Chair and Vice-Chair are not available today. I understand that this is just an organizational meeting in any event.
We're here first of all to deal with a motion to appoint the subcommittee.
Mr Peter L. Preston (Brant-Haldimand): I move that a subcommittee on committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair or at the request of any member thereof to consider and report to the committee on the business of the committee; that the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting; and that the subcommittee be composed of the following members: Mr Grandmaître as Chair, Ms Martel, Mr Lalonde and Mr Young; and that any member may designate a substitute member on the subcommittee who is of the same recognized party.
The Acting Chair: Is there any discussion on the motion? All those in favour? Opposed? Carried unanimously.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
The Acting Chair: Next, the report of the subcommittee. We have a report of the subcommittee here with three recommendations. I'll just read them in very quickly.
"Your subcommittee met on December 9, 1997, and has agreed to recommend the following:
"1. That the committee request time to meet during the winter recess, on February 18, 19, 25 and 26, to consider sections 3.01, 3.06, 3.10 and 3.13 of the 1997-98 annual report of the Provincial Auditor.
"2. That the committee consider one of the above sections on each of the four meeting days. The committee will begin with a closed-session briefing by the research officer and the Provincial Auditor, and the deputy minister and other appropriate staff of each respective ministry will be asked to attend the committee following the closed-session briefing to answer the committee's questions.
"3. At the next regular meeting of the committee when the House resumes meeting, the committee will consider the theme `Managing Finances,' which consideration shall encompass the sections of the 1997-98 annual report of the Provincial Auditor that fall under that umbrella (3.05, 3.06), the issue of the funding of the teachers' pension fund and the issue raised by Mr Phillips in his letter to the Provincial Auditor regarding the contingency fund. The initial witness to be invited to appear before the committee on this theme shall be Mr Michael Gourley, Deputy Minister of Finance, and other ministry staff as appropriate."
That's the subcommittee report. Discussion?
Mr Preston: I would move an amendment to section 1 to change the dates February 25 and 26 to any other dates that are suitable to the committee. Since this meeting there have been agendas set that will interfere with February 25 and 26.
The Acting Chair: So the amendment, then, basically will leave February 18 and 19.
Mr Preston: Yes.
The Acting Chair: Instead of February 25 and 26, the amendment is to put in there "two other dates that are suitable to the committee."
Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Prescott and Russell): Is that sufficient to take care of it or should they be advertised now?
Clerk Pro Tem (Mr Todd Decker): The committee can do that. The request to the House leaders and whips would be for two additional dates, to be determined by the committee. The committee would then have to be given the authority to pick the two dates.
Mr Preston: Has the Chairman read out the amendment that would suffice? All right, that's the amendment I move.
The Acting Chair: Okay. Any further discussion?
Mr Erik Peters: Chair, may I just make a quick explanatory comment? You'll probably notice in this that section 3.06, which deals with the Ontario student assistance program, appears twice. It appears in item 1 of the motion and it appears again in item 3. The reason for that -- I'm venturing a guess here -- was that it deals with the Ontario student assistance program and there is a part of the program that deals with collecting the accounts of defaulted student loans, and that is strictly a financial management matter. That's why 3.06 reappears in this section. I just thought that explanatory comment may be worthwhile for you to know.
The Acting Chair: Thank you for your information. What about getting back to the other issue of the amendment?
Mr Lalonde: I just wonder when we can decide on the other two dates, then? We know that at this time people are going away for vacations. I believe we should come up with a decision before the end of next week.
Mr Preston: The week before?
Mr Lalonde: We've already got dates in the week before.
Mr Preston: No, the week before the 18th and 19th.
Mr Lalonde: No, we couldn't. That was discussed at the subcommittee. There were going to be too many people missing.
Mr Preston: All right, then you're looking at the first week of March. When does March break start?
The Acting Chair: March break starts the week after that. The March break next year is the week of March 15 to 22. You could meet on the 11th and 12th. That would not interfere with March break unless you leave early.
Mr Lalonde: Would the 4th and 5th not be better?
Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): I'm not the regular member, so it's a bit of a problem in terms of understanding.
The Acting Chair: It's easy to set dates, then.
Mr Marchese: Obviously for me, as long as you choose two dates. But couldn't the subcommittee meet in the next day or two or next week to decide?
Mr Preston: It's only a matter of polling the regular members. Can we just leave the amendment the way it is, then?
The Acting Chair: Yes.
Mr Marchese: There's agreement that we have two extra days, obviously, and it's a question of just pinning those two days down. The subcommittee could meet, decide that and solve the problem.
Mr Preston: I'll buy that.
The Acting Chair: Is that agreeable, Mr Lalonde? You're one of the whips on the subcommittee, so maybe you could meet with the other whips over the next two or three days and sort that out before the House recesses before Christmas.
Okay. Is there any further discussion on the amendment, then? If not, all those in favour of the amendment? Carried unanimously.
Any further discussion on the motion, as amended? All in favour? Opposed? Carried.
Mr Preston: Maybe it's going to be a good year.
The Acting Chair: Anything else before the committee?
Mr Preston: Adjournment.
The Acting Chair: Meeting adjourned. Thank you.
The committee adjourned at 1011.