CONTENTS
Tuesday 28 November 1995
Subcommittee report
STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
*Chair / Président: Patten, Richard (Ottawa Centre / -Centre L)
*Vice-Chair / Vice-Président: Gerretsen, John
(Kingston and The Islands / Kingston et Les Îles L)
*Agostino, Dominic (Hamilton East / -Est L)
*Ecker, Janet (Durham West / -Ouest PC)
*Gerretsen, John (Kingston and The Islands / Kingston et Les Îles L)
*Gravelle, Michael (Port Arthur L)
*Johns, Helen (Huron PC)
*Jordan, Leo (Lanark-Renfrew PC)
Laughren, Floyd (Nickel Belt ND)
*Munro, Julia (Durham-York PC)
*Newman, Dan (Scarborough Centre / -Centre PC)
*Patten, Richard (Ottawa Centre / -Centre L)
*Pettit, Trevor (Hamilton Mountain PC)
*Preston, Peter L. (Brant-Haldimand PC)
*Smith, Bruce (Middlesex PC)
Wildman, Bud (Algoma ND)
*In attendance / présents
Substitutions present / Membres remplaçants prèsents:
Martin, Tony (Sault Ste Marie ND) for Mr Wildman
Clerk / Greffière: Mellor, Lynn
Staff / Personnel:
Gardner, Dr Bob, assistant director, Legislative Research Service
Glenn, Ted, research officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 1536 in room 151.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
The Chair (Mr Richard Patten): Ladies and gentlemen, you have before you a copy of the report of the subcommittee, which met yesterday. This report is before you and, if all is well, we would then proceed to a further subcommittee from this committee to add further details for the procedure. This is not an exciting meeting, necessarily, for the committee, but it is a way of launching us officially. The advice I have from the Clerk is that the subcommittee's report is deemed to be accepted. We need not have a motion; it's under 125 of the provisions. These are before you. Are there any comments or questions at this time?
Mr Peter Preston (Brant-Haldimand): I'm sorry I missed the other meeting, but the situation I can't figure out is the "provided to children including...." I can't recollect the reduction in most of these. Can somebody tell me why we're investigating things that I don't think have happened as yet? Or if you can tell me when they happened, when and how these cuts were made, I'd be appreciative.
Mr Michael Gravelle (Port Arthur): I think that many of the reductions in funding that the minister announced in the ministry cuts earlier this year certainly have taken place, in terms of the 5%, the 2.5%, in terms of the cuts to ministries already in place that we've been talking about pretty well all through the fall, in terms of children's mental health services, the children's aid societies, which have obviously been --
Mr Preston: That's one I can buy.
Mr Gravelle: I mean, we can talk about the impact of some of the things that may be happening. We'll be finding out about them, but certainly the cuts are there in terms of the funding for programs for children with disabilities and other things. The fact is, the reason we tried to phrase it as "the impact of the Conservative government funding cuts on children and on children's services in the province of Ontario" -- that was our overall general statement that we thought should be accepted.
The Chair: Peter, just for your information, within each calendar year each caucus is entitled to have what's called a 125, which is, they put it forward, they're only allowed to have one each year and, providing the requirements are met, which are listed in the report -- the clarity of statement, they list they have certain members -- what were the other two?
Clerk of the Committee (Ms Lynn Mellor): The starting date.
The Chair: The starting date and the sense of proportion of timing, I suppose.
Clerk of the Committee: The time allocated.
The Chair: The time allocated for the consideration of the matter.
Clerk of the Committee: Which is 12 hours.
The Chair: There's a maximum on that; there's a cap on it. That's one of the ways in which some of the opposition caucuses get their crack at something in a way. They can do it once a year other than --
Clerk of the Committee: These reports are deemed to be adopted by the committee.
Mr Preston: Okay.
The Chair: No, no, that's okay. We're all learning about this.
Mrs Janet Ecker (Durham West): Is it permissible for the committee to ask the subcommittee to consider issues that perhaps have not been settled in the original motion. For example, we don't have time for presenters. I still feel that we do need some opportunity for ministry participation where there's an opportunity to put some facts on the table. My colleague made a comment that I think demonstrates the need for that, if we want to make sure that the committee report's going to reflect exactly what's happening and given the fact that there may or may not be changes in some of these things as of tomorrow. I don't know if it's feasible for us to move that the subcommittee pursue that or whether we can give direction to the subcommittee to do that. How does that work?
The Chair: My understanding is that any member can make a suggestion to the subcommittee and the subcommittee can entertain it, and if the subcommittee agrees, then it can make the modifications, but there was the overall time allocation.
Mrs Ecker: That's right, yes. I acknowledge that.
The Chair: I believe the assumption yesterday was that -- in the interests of time, because today apparently is the last day -- if this was presented within that time frame, then immediately following this meeting we would go at some further detail and further clarification that would be up to agreement by the subcommittee. So if you have any of those concerns, we'll raise them in the subcommittee.
Mr Gravelle: Mr Chair, I have to speak in the House following the minister. I understand he's only speaking for 10 minutes, so if I could excuse myself; I will come right back.
The Chair: No, I'm sorry; you're not allowed.
Mr Gravelle: I'll be short.
The Chair: In the meantime, you may have a substitute for yourself.
Mr Gravelle: Mr Gerretsen will speak on my behalf.
The Chair: All right.
Now, the function was simply the presentation of this to the committee, and then the subcommittee would convene to deal with the questions, such as what Janet's raised and any other questions you may have or, Tony, that you may have. So I would ask for a motion of adjournment.
Mr Tony Martin (Sault Ste Marie): So moved.
The Chair: Thank you. So now I have to bring the gavel down.
The committee adjourned at 1543.