Journal des débats 1997-avril-06 | Assemblée législative de l'Ontario

L176M - Sun 6 Apr 1997 / Dim 6 avr 1997

CITY OF TORONTO ACT, 1996 / LOI DE 1996 SUR LA CITÉ DE TORONTO

Report continued from volume L.

0800

CITY OF TORONTO ACT, 1996 / LOI DE 1996 SUR LA CITÉ DE TORONTO

Continuing consideration of Bill 103, An Act to replace the seven existing municipal governments of Metropolitan Toronto by incorporating a new municipality to be known as the City of Toronto / Projet de loi 103, Loi visant à remplacer les sept administrations municipales existantes de la communauté urbaine de Toronto en constituant une nouvelle municipalité appelée la cité de Toronto.

The Acting Chair (Doug Galt): NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Delaney Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Delaney Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`3. If 10 or more persons requested a public hearing within 30 days after the notice was given, a public hearing has been held and the minister has considered all oral submissions made at the hearing.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote on this motion shall be deferred.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Delano Place living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Delano Place living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dove Hawk Way living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dove Hawk Way living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried?

Mr Michael Gravelle (Port Arthur): On a point of order, Mr Chair: I believe we do not have a quorum. Could we do a quorum call?

The Acting Chair: Would the Clerk please check if there's a quorum.

Acting Clerk at the Table (Ms Donna Bryce): Chair, a quorum is not present.

The Acting Chair ordered the bells rung.

Acting Clerk Assistant: A quorum is now present.

The Acting Chair: All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote shall be deferred.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dovedale Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dovedale Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. It shall be a deferred vote on this motion.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dovehaven Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dovehaven Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee the motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. It shall be a deferred vote.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dovehouse Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dovehouse Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferred vote on this motion.

Mrs Marion Boyd (London Centre): On a point of order, Mr Chair: There is a spelling error in this one, and we want to withdraw it. It says "Dovencourt" and it should be "Dovercourt," so I'm withdrawing.

The Acting Chair: Dover; it should be an R. Thank you. Do you want it withdrawn or the spelling corrected? Withdraw? Thank you very much.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dovenhaven Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dovenhaven Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There will be a deferred vote on this motion.

0810

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dover Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dover Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: There is no street designation on this one, so we're withdrawing it.

The Acting Chair: I have Dovercourt.

Mrs Boyd: Yes, but there's no street designation.

The Acting Chair: No street designation. Thank you very much.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dovercourt Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dovercourt Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Doverwood Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Doverwood Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dowling Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dowling Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Downing Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Downing Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Downpatrick Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Downpatrick Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Downsview Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Downsview Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my humble opinion, the nays have it. The vote on this motion shall be deferred.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dowry Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dowry Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

0820

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dowswell Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dowswell Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: In the next one, the Drive is ahead of Graydon Hall, so we're withdrawing it in the interests of time.

The Acting Chair: We have another NDP motion.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: I'm sorry, I should have withdrawn both at the same time. The next one is withdrawn as well. There's no street designation.

The Acting Chair: Thank you. We got through those two quickly.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dragoon Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dragoon Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." It's my opinion the nays have it. The vote on this motion shall be deferred.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drake Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drake Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Draper Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Draper Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Draycott Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Draycott Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferred vote on that motion.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drayton Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drayton Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There will be a deferred vote on this motion.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dresden Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dresden Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drewry Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drewry Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

0830

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drexel Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drexel Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferred vote on that motion.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: In the next amendment there is no street designation. It's just Driftwood, so we're withdrawing it.

The Acting Chair: Thank you.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Driftwood Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Driftwood Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP -- oh, is this the duplication?

Mrs Boyd: Yes, I'm withdrawing it. This is the duplicate.

The Acting Chair: Thank you very much.

Moving right along to another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Driftwood Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Driftwood Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferral on this motion.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dromore Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dromore Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`3. If 10 or more persons requested a public hearing within 30 days after the notice was given, a public hearing zhas been held and the minister has considered all oral submissions made at the hearing.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Droxford Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Droxford Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferred vote on this motion.

Another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Druid Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Druid Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall this motion be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There will be a deferred vote on this motion.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drumheller Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drumheller Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion -- thank you.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: This needs to be in Hansard that these are withdrawn. You can't just discard them. The next two do not have street designations and they are both to be withdrawn. They are Drumlin and Drummond and they don't have street designations.

The Acting Chair: Thank you very much. Thank you for proofing them.

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drummond Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drummond Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drumoak Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drumoak Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There'll be a deferred vote.

0840

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drumsnab Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drumsnab Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There'll be a deferred vote on this motion.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drury Lane living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drury Lane living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Drysdale Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Drysdale Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There'll be a deferred vote on that motion.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duart Park Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duart Park Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it.

Interjections.

The Acting Chair: The vote shall be deferred.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24" -- kind of slow there -- "of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:"

Interjections.

The Acting Chair: I won't be so generous and considerate next time.

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dubarry Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation" in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dubarry Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton Centre): Point of order: I would like to withdraw the next one as there's no street designation after the word "Dublin."

The Second Deputy Chair: Thank you. NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dublin Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dublin Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote shall be deferred.

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dubray Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dubray Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duck Hawk Way living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duck Hawk Way living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duckworth Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duckworth Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

0850

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dufferin Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dufferin Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duffield Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duffield Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dufflaw Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dufflaw Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There'll be a deferred vote on that motion.

We have NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duffort Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duffort Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferral on this motion.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dufresne Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dufresne Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

An NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duggan Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duggan Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

We have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunkinfield Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunkinfield Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all --

Mrs Boyd: Point of order, Mr Chair: Would you say clearly what one you were on?

The Acting Chair: Dunkinfield Crescent.

Mrs Boyd: That is not correct. It's Dukinfield.

The Acting Chair: Oh, Dukin. My apologies. It's Dukinfield. Would they please correct the record?

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

0900

We now have an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dulverton Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dulverton Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is everyone in favour that this motion shall be carried? All those in favour please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. There shall be a deferred vote on this motion.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dumas Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dumas Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dumaurier Boulevard living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dumaurier Boulevard living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dumbarton Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dumbarton Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dumfrey Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dumfrey Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Mr Chair: There is no street designation for Dumont so we are withdrawing it.

The Acting Chair: Thank you. I have another NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dumont Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dumont Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunbar Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunbar Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:" --

Hon Al Leach (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): On a point of order, Mr Chair: There were only four members in their seats on that last.

The Acting Chair: Did a fifth one not make it up?

Hon Mr Leach: He wasn't in his seat, Mr Chair.

The Acting Chair: Were you not in your seat?

Hon Mr Leach: He was not in his seat. Standing order 28(a). He was not in his seat.

Mr Mario Sergio (Yorkview): Do you want to play games? I was here.

The Acting Chair: That's close enough. That's satisfactory. I accept his position.

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunblaine Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunblaine Avenue living in the urban area." --

Hon Mr Leach: On a point of order, Mr Chair: I have to challenge your ruling on that because the member was obviously not in his seat.

The Acting Chair: I was trusting that he's an honourable member and would state to me where he was standing.

Hon Mr Leach: So are the three people who said no the last time.

The Acting Chair: You are challenging the Chair?

Hon Mr Leach: Yes.

The Acting Chair: Thank you very much.

The committee rose and requested a ruling of the Speaker.

0925

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Minister of Municipal Affairs.

Hon Mr Leach: Mr Speaker, when the opposition members stood to defer the vote on Dunbar Road, there were only four members standing in their place. They were the member for Windsor-Walkerville, the member for Lawrence, the member for Lake Nipigon and the member for London Centre. There were no other opposition members standing in their place, and in accordance with 28(a), "When a voice vote has been taken on any question, a division may be required by five members standing in their places." That was observed by many members on this side of the House.

The Speaker: The member for Lawrence.

Mr Joseph Cordiano (Lawrence): My recollection is that the member for Yorkview was standing in the general vicinity of his place. From the corner of my eye, I could see that --

Interjections.

Mr Cordiano: That's right.

The Speaker: Order, please. I heard the Minister of Municipal Affairs and I'd like to hear the member for Lawrence.

Mr Cordiano: As incredible as it may seem, the member was standing in the vicinity of the fourth row, near his seat. Now, I suppose one could --

The Speaker: Member for Nepean, if you could go back to your seat it would be very, very helpful, as well as the rest of the members who aren't in their seats. Thank you.

Mr Cordiano: I make this point, Mr Speaker: The member was not sitting in his seat, but then of course we're talking about the requirement to be standing; we're not talking about a requirement to be seated in his seat. So he was standing in the general vicinity of his seat, and I think that's the point to be made here. That's the requirement, that the member be standing, and as it was, he was standing.

The Speaker: The member for Lake Nipigon.

Mr Gilles Pouliot (Lake Nipigon): Good morning, Mr Speaker. I personally see no need to disturb the highest authority in the House on such a bagatelle, on such a trivia.

Directly to the point of order, the member was standing proud at his post on this motion, like he did on dozens of previous amendment motions.

Mr Sergio: Mr Speaker, I was watching carefully the Chair reading the final words of the motion, and he was about to call for the vote. I was about to step out and I was just about here. When I heard him calling the vote, I stopped right here. All right? That's what it was.

Mr Gravelle: Mr Speaker, I think what's also very important here is that the Chair -- the member for Northumberland -- counted five and announced that the vote would be deferred. I think out of respect for his -- he certainly should be trusted to do the head count. He did the head count. He counted five and announced that the vote was deferred. He obviously considered the member for Yorkview to be in his place. So it seems to me that this is a somewhat frivolous gesture here to bring you out for this when it's very clear that their own member --

Interjections.

The Speaker: Chief government whip, I would ask you to withdraw that statement. I find it very offensive.

Mr David Turnbull (York Mills): I'm not in my seat.

The Speaker: I am giving you one chance to withdraw that comment. I suggest you go back to your seat and withdraw it. One chance.

Mr David Turnbull (York Mills): I withdraw it.

The Speaker: Chief government whip, you either go back to your seat and withdraw that comment or I will name you.

Mr David Turnbull (York Mills): I withdraw it, Mr Speaker.

The Speaker: I have heard the submissions. I thank the members for their submissions. I heard the report from the committee Chair and I support the committee Chair's ruling.

House in committee of the whole.

The First Deputy Chair (Ms Marilyn Churley): Member for London Centre.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Chair: Before the previous Chair leaves the House, I'd like to express our appreciation for the clarity and speed with which he went through a very great number of motions. Thank you.

Mrs Margaret Marland (Mississauga South): Point of order, Madam Chair: The Speaker just said that he was confirming the ruling of the Chair. Would you confirm for us what that ruling was, because it isn't clear?

The First Deputy Chair: Obviously, I was not the Chair in this chair at the time. If you'll give me a moment, I'd be happy to.

The ruling of the Speaker --

Mrs Marland: Of the Chair.

The First Deputy Chair: -- was that Mr Sergio was in his place at the time of the voice vote for the deferred vote.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunblaine Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunblaine Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,'"

Interjections.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please.

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mr Dwight Duncan (Windsor-Walkerville): On a point of order, Madam Chair: Mr Newman from Scarborough has been making sheep noises all morning from a place other than his seat. We have had calls now. Our office has had calls from Scarborough, from Sudbury and from Ottawa with respect to that noise. My understanding of the standing rules is that this kind of noise is not permitted even though it may be a sign of his own lonesomeness, but I would suggest that if he's going to heckle, he ought to be in his own seat and the Chair ought to enforce those rules.

Interjections.

The First Deputy Chair: Order. I am not accepting any more points until it's quiet.

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean): On a point of order, Madam Chair: I would like to make reference to my colleague the member for Scarborough Centre, who has been here just about 24 hours a day, working hard. What he is doing is pointing to the fact that the NDP are calling the shots over the Liberals in this House, and that accounts for his noises.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay. I don't need an explanation for what any of the noises are about.

Mr Pouliot: On a point of order, Madam Chair: Directly to this point of order, we shouldn't be too harsh on Mr Newman; Mr Newman is just being Mr Newman.

Interjections.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please. I would like to take this opportunity to tell all members of the House that the decorum of the place, in my view, from watching a little on TV over the course of the evening and now coming into the chamber, is getting a little bit out of hand. I know people are probably a little bit tired. Would I be right in suggesting that people are a little tired? I am speaking for myself too.

Mr Terence H. Young (Halton Centre): We are not tired.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, if you're not tired, there must be some other reason. If you're not tired, there is no excuse whatsoever for this kind of behaviour. I would ask, therefore, that people try to maintain decorum in this place and try to keep any rude noises under control, keep yourselves under control, and I would ask that the heckling be kept under control. Thank you very much. We'll now proceed.

Interjection: Good ruling, Chair.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay. Thank you all for your feedback on my ruling and for obeying me instantly on my request for people not to heckle.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunbloor Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunbloor Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

0940

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunboyne Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunboyne Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncairn Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncairn Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncairn Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncairn Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Chair: There is no street designation on the next one; it's just Duncan, without a street, so we're withdrawing it.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, withdrawing Duncan.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncan Mill Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncan Mill Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Chair: This is a duplicate of the one we have just completed, and I withdraw it.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, withdrawn.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncan Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncan Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncannon Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncannon Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncanwoods Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncanwoods Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

0950

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duncombe Boulevard living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duncombe Boulevard living in the urban area." --

Interjection.

The First Deputy Chair: Member for Grey-Owen Sound, come to order back there.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Chair: The next one, Dundalk, has no street designation and we withdraw it.

The First Deputy Chair: I'll withdraw that one with Dundalk on it.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dundalk Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dundalk Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dundas Square living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dundas Square living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Chair: For some reason the next one has two street names, Dundas Street and Dundee Drive, and I'm withdrawing it.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, I will withdraw that one.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dundonald Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dundonald Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dundurn Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dundurn Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

1000

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dundurn Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dundurn Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dune Grass Way living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dune Grass Way living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." All those opposed to the motion please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: The next one is spelled differently but seems to be the same street that we just passed. Dune Grassway is put together rather than separately, so I'm withdrawing that one.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, we'll withdraw that one.

Mr Baird: On a point of order, Madam Chair: And this is a genuine point of order.

The First Deputy Chair: I don't know if there is such a thing, but go ahead.

Mr Baird: Would it be possible to have a team from the clerks branch and one of your colleagues, a fellow deputy or the Second Deputy Chair, go through these amendments? What we're seeing time and time again are amendments with incredible spelling errors, amendments with serious amendments, amendments with blank spaces there. Clearly these amendments, which under the time allocation motion had to be submitted to the Chair by 2 o'clock on Wednesday that were being put are not in order. I understand normally in committee the committee Chair, together with the advice of the clerk, would consider the amendments and then just rule large numbers of them out of order. What we're seeing is every second or third amendment they've made a mistake; they have not done their homework.

The First Deputy Chair: Because of the one-hour time allocation on passing these amendments, you will recall that the rest of the amendments which were not dealt with during that one hour were deemed to have been moved. Therefore, nobody but the mover of the amendment, because they had been deemed to be moved, can withdraw those amendments. I thank you for your suggestion, but under our rules that cannot be done.

Mr Baird: Can I ask who the mover of the amendments is, which member?

The First Deputy Chair: It's not an individual. These are NDP amendments. As you know, all parties, in this case NDP, Liberal and Tories, present amendments, but there's no particular person within those parties who make the amendments. So there can't be a person I can designate.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Minister of Natural Resources, Northern Development and Mines): Point of order: In a similar vein, Madam Chair, it's my understanding that with unanimous consent the committee of the whole could agree to a process in the interests of time, which has been stated for part of the reason why they withdraw a number of these amendments, that the NDP caucus could sit down with the Clerk's table and withdraw ahead of time a number of these amendments that have been mistakenly admitted.

Interjections.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please. We can do practically anything in this House with unanimous consent --

Interjection: We have.

The First Deputy Chair: -- and yes, you're quite right; that's almost true. Is there unanimous consent? No, there's not unanimous consent.

Interjections.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please.

Mr Pouliot: Spend, spend, spend. The debt goes up --

The First Deputy Chair: Member for Lake Nipigon, order, please.

Mr Pouliot: They give a tax cut instead of paying the debt.

Mr Baird: Point of order.

The First Deputy Chair: Do you have something new to add?

Mr Baird: Yes. I was wondering, is it in order for a political party to move an amendment? Does not the nature of an amendment require that a member of this Legislative Assembly put the amendment? Can a group put the amendment, or does it not have to be a member to put the amendment? If it was a member, is that member not required to be here when that amendment is put?

The First Deputy Chair: Member for Nepean, let me be clear again. These amendments had to be filed with the Clerk by 2 o'clock on whatever day that was.

Mr Cordiano: Wednesday last.

The First Deputy Chair: Wednesday last. Therefore, any amendments that are deemed to have been moved, obviously they were filed with the Clerk but not moved by a specific person, so no, they have been deemed to be moved after being brought on time to the Clerk's office.

Mr Baird: Could I ask an interpretation? I appreciate your ruling and I don't challenge it. Who are they filed by? Who is eligible to file an amendment?

The First Deputy Chair: I can tell you that I was one of the people who filed these, as well as the leader of our party and several other members of the NDP caucus who all brought, you will recall, the boxes which were carted down to the Clerk's office. Those amendments at that time by several of us were brought and filed with the Clerk.

Okay, are we ready to go?

1010

Mr Sergio: Point of order, Madam Chair: For the sake of just adding to what the member for Nepean has said, we had a ruling from the Speaker yesterday that if they still continue to have any problem, especially with the way the amendments were introduced, they should have said so when the amendments were introduced, not in the middle as we deal with them.

On the other matter: We just couldn't deal with the amendments of the third party, that perhaps they should sit down at the table and do away with a number of the amendments, because you, Chair, deal with each amendment as they come by and we wouldn't know in advance which one to pull or not to pull.

The First Deputy Chair: Thank you for adding to the point of order.

Mr Christopherson: On a point of order, Chair: I would just point out that given that the member for Nepean did not raise anything specific about these amendments but rather the overall usual business of committee of the whole, that if after almost two years he's still not familiar with those basic rules, I'm sure the table would be prepared to provide him with some classes to assist him.

Interjection: They keep them in the dark.

The First Deputy Chair: Let's calm down here. I've already ruled on this and I think it's pretty clear now, member for Nepean, that we will proceed under the rules with these amendments.

You're through with your point of order, aren't you? Yes.

Mr Sergio: I'm tired sitting down, so you don't mind if I stand up, do you?

The First Deputy Chair: You don't have the floor, then. You don't have the floor, you're not rising on a point of order and I can hear you loud and clear.

Mr Sergio: Thank you.

The First Deputy Chair: NDP motion, subsection 24(4).

Mr Cordiano: Don't you have any cabinet documents to read?

The First Deputy Chair: Member for Lawrence.

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunedin Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunedin Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunelm Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied.'"

Hon Charles Harnick (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs): Dispense.

The First Deputy Chair: Dispense? No.

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunelm Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. A deferred vote.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunfield Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunfield Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the amendment carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." All those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunforest Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunforest Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. A deferred vote.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunhill Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunhill Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. A deferred vote.

1020

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunington Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunington Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunkirk Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunkirk Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: On a point of order, Chair: There is no street designation on the next one, which is Dunkleman, so we withdraw it.

The First Deputy Chair: NDP motion, subsection 24(4).

Interjection: Dispense.

The First Deputy Chair: Dispense? No.

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunlace Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunlace Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunloe Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunloe Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunlop Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunlop Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

1030

NDP motion, subsection 4(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunmail Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunmail Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. A deferred vote.

NDP motion --

Mrs Helen Johns (Huron): Dispense.

The First Deputy Chair: Dispense? No.

Subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunmurray Boulevard living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunmurray Boulevard living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunn Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunn Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 4(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunning Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunning Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion --

Mrs Johns: Dispense.

The First Deputy Chair: Dispense? No.

Subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunnington Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunnington Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it.

Interjection: Four up.

The First Deputy Chair: Sorry, the motion lost.

Interjection: What?

The First Deputy Chair: The vote lost.

Interjection: You guys didn't get up.

The First Deputy Chair: Sorry about that. It's a deferred vote. I was right.

Interjection: The motion lost.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please.

1040

Mr Cordiano: Point of order: Can we get clarification on that?

The First Deputy Chair: Certainly.

Interjections.

The Deputy Speaker: Order. I saw four people and what happened is that you stood in sections, frankly. You stood up, sat down, and then you stood up. At no time were there four people at the same time on their feet and I'm afraid to say that you can't do it in sections. Okay, thank you. So the vote has lost.

Mrs Marland: Madam Chair, on the same point: I think it's interesting, and I'd like your ruling on this, that the member for Lawrence would want clarification on the vote because when his member was in the chair and there was a snap "carried" announced and we lost, the request wasn't for clarification, it was for time to vote. So it's rather significant that the question is raised by the Liberal Party.

The First Deputy Chair: Member for Mississauga South, to all members, the vote has been called. I saw four members up and that's all I am dealing with here. That is not a point of order.

Mrs Boyd: Madam Chair, I have a point of order: I'm curious as to who the new member of the Legislature is.

The First Deputy Chair: Are you suggesting there's a stranger in the ranks?

Mrs Boyd: Not exactly a stranger, but sitting in a member's chair. Thank you.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay, thanks.

NDP motion, subsection 4(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunraven Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunraven Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion. subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunreo Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunreo Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

Interjection.

The First Deputy Chair: Order, please, member for Lake Nipigon.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Mrs Boyd: Point of order, Madam Chair: I'd like to point out that there's a special guest in the east gallery -- James, who has come to see his grandmother presiding over the Legislature.

The First Deputy Chair: That is out of order.

Interjection: Is that your grandson?

The First Deputy Chair: It is, it's James, and of course, we're not allowed --

Mr Pouliot: What a shame that they won't let him go to junior kindergarten.

The First Deputy Chair: I will now get back to the motion. NDP motion, subsection 4(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunrobin Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunrobin Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion. subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunsany Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunsany Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

1050

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunsdale Square living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunsdale Square living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunsfold Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunsfold Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. Deferred vote.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunsmore Gardens living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunsmore Gardens living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunstable Place living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunstable Place living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunstall Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunstall Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

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NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunster Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunster Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion say "aye." Those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunthorne Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunthorne Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duntroon Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duntroon Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion please say "aye." Those opposed please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

Hon Noble Villeneuve (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs, minister responsible for francophone affairs): Madam Chair, on a point of order: Earlier, about an hour ago, there was a discussion about the filing of all of these amendments. I can recall well having been in your position in the last Parliament, and it was always a joy to deal with colleagues. Of course, impartiality is of utmost importance. At that point, I believe you mentioned that you had filed some of these amendments, along with your party leader. I have a little difficulty when the person in the chair refers to their party leader while in the chair. I'm simply asking possibly some clarification, because if indeed you, Madam Chair, as a member of the NDP, filed some of these amendments, I think it would be out of order for you to be in the chair when these amendments are being tabled.

I simply ask for some clarification, because we do not have at this particular time Instant Hansard. I was under the impression that the House was sitting with all of the attributes that we normally have. I understand that the Instant Hansard has not been available since Thursday. It will be printed for historical and other purposes later. However, I'm simply at a loss here when the Chair refers to her party and her party leader while in the chair and then we are moving some of the documents that apparently were filed by yourself.

Mr Sergio: On the same point of order, Madam Chair: We have said before that the Speaker has rendered his decision already and has said that if you have a problem with the way the amendments have been introduced, you should have said so at the beginning, when the amendments were introduced. Therefore, to come back time and time again, if any member of the House had any problem with any of the amendments, they should have said so when the amendments were introduced and not in the middle of the presentation of the amendments.

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): Point of order, Madam Chair: I think all of us recognize that this is an extraordinary situation and that all of us are tired, particularly those who have been serving in the chair, and that on occasion some may make a slip. I would hope that all of us could take that into account.

Having said that, in terms of what the member for the united counties and East Grenville said about Instant Hansard, I was unaware that Instant Hansard wasn't available but I suspect it may be because of the complaints that certain Conservative members have raised about the cost of keeping this place in operation. I guess they've decided not to continue running the place the way it normally would.

Hon Mr Villeneuve: Point of order, Madam Chair: I understand my colleague from Yorkview, but this is something that has just come upon reflection of some of your statements during the last hour and with all due respect I would ask your ruling. There may be a further request for clarification.

Mr Baird: Madam Chair, I'd like to speak to that same point. I would at the outset say to you, Madam Chair, I know you to be an honourable person and I think it's important in the political process to be honest about that. I brought up a point of order and I requested to ask who the amendments were made by. You correctly pointed out, and I accept that ruling, that the amendments were deemed to have been made under the terms of the time allocation motion. They had to be filed with the Clerk by 2 o'clock on Wednesday, and all such amendments were, as you've ruled, deemed to be have been made by the terms of the motion that was passed by this House.

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Under the terms and conditions of that motion, they were deemed to have been made by the person who filed them. Obviously, groups can't file them; they have to be filed by particular members. Staff can't move amendments; constituents, other non-parliamentary players can't move. They have to be moved by members of this place.

Instant Hansard is unavailable but I did consult the video Hansard record and I checked that. I asked you at 1005, "Could I ask who the mover of these amendments was?" You made the explanation which I've just outlined. Then, at 1007, I asked you, "Who are they filed by?" Because the person who filed them is deemed to be said. Your direct quote was, at 1008, "I can tell you that I was one of the people who filed them, as well as the leader of our party, as well as several other NDP members of the caucus."

I would ask that if those amendments were filed by someone who knew they would be in the chair, are they eligible for consideration, and are the ones we've considered in this place since Wednesday at 7 pm eligible for consideration? I would request your honest view on that, Madam Chair.

The First Deputy Chair: Thank you for your points of order. I'm going to confer with the table officers, but before I do that I would say that although there isn't Instant Hansard available, member for Nepean, if you say that you have seen it in the video, then I accept your word that that's what I said. If I did say that, you are quite right, it is inappropriate when we are in this chair to in any way be partisan. If I did say "our leader," then of course it was inappropriate. I should have said "the NDP leader." There is no question on that. That is on the first point. I'm not quite sure what you are asking that you want me to do about that. I can apologize for the slip. That's the first point.

The second point I want to confer with the table officers about. I think I know the answer to this, but I want to confirm that I've got it right, if you'll just give me a moment.

To that point: I was correct in my own judgement of this; it's been confirmed. I'll go back again to what I said earlier and what you spoke to, and that is that these amendments have been deemed to have been moved. There is no name attached to those amendments -- my name or no name is attached to them. It's from the NDP and they were tabled before 2 last Wednesday. Yes, I did in fact walk with the boxes into the Clerk's office, but there is nothing out of order with my doing that, and I should think that the ex-Deputy Chair would remember that. You will recall on many occasions, as I now do when I am sitting in the chair when the House is in session, sometimes bills are called that I am the critic for -- say, the environment -- and I have made some amendments, in that case in my name, and then later I end up in this chair in an impartial manner making rulings and chairing the debate.

I would say that when I am in this chair and when I am in the chair of the Legislature, like the other deputy chairs, and you will remember as well, I do my utmost to be impartial and I try to deal fairly with all members in this House. I would also add that since these amendments are deemed to have been passed, it's pretty routine what we're doing here.

Mrs Boyd: Deemed to have been put.

The First Deputy Chair: Deemed to have been put. I'm saying there is nothing out of order here.

Hon Mr Villeneuve: Thank you very much for your explanation. However, when it was admitted that you yourself had filed, I think I must ask for a ruling from our Speaker to further clarify the situation. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

The First Deputy Chair: Okay.

The committee rose and requested a ruling of the Speaker.

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The First Deputy Chair: Mr Speaker, the committee of the whole has risen because there has been an appeal of a ruling that I made. The appeal was by the member for S-D-G and East Grenville.

The Speaker: Thank you very much. The Minister of Agriculture.

Hon Mr Villeneuve: Mr Speaker, thank you for your indulgence. Some certain matters were discussed during the presentation of the amendments to Bill 103, and as you know and I know, we are all honourable members in this place. Our colleague who was in the chair, chairing committee of the whole, was asked by my colleague from Nepean regarding how the amendments came about and who presented them and where they were drawn up.

As you know, Speaker, we do not have the benefit of Instant Hansard, so we had to wait and run the tape, so I will have to attempt to quote as best I can from what we derived from the tape, which was in the area of 1005 to 1007.

The Speaker: Do your best on that.

Hon Mr Villeneuve: The question was from my colleague from Nepean, "Who were they filed by?" referring to the amendments to Bill 103, and the reply, as best as I can make out, from the Chair of the committee was, "I can tell you that I was one of the people who filed them, as well as the leader of our party, as well as several other members of the NDP caucus." I had the privilege of occupying your chair in the last Parliament as well as the chair of the committee of the whole, and yes, the honourable member who was in the chair at that time did apologize for having left a perception of being politically partisan in referring to "our party" while in the chair, and I accept that.

However, the fact is that the same person has admitted to being one of the people who filed the amendments, and for an hour we did present amendments prior to going into what we are into, the presentation of the amendments, and therefore I am simply asking you, sir, if the Chair of the committee of the whole was part of getting these amendments prepared, was part of that, or, as she admits, one of the people who filed them, can she indeed chair in the processing of these amendments? Because in standing order 12 it certainly says the Speaker shall not in any way participate in the debate.

I simply leave it to your good judgement. The honourable member admitted to having filed amendments. Then I think the least we could do is find those amendments that were filed by the honourable member who was Chair and have them declared out of order.

The Speaker: The member for Algoma.

Mr Wildman: My friend from the united counties and East Grenville has analysed or put forward the position as occurred in the initial exchange but has not delineated the actual ruling that was challenged. The ruling was that, as per the time allocation motion, as of 5 o'clock on Wednesday the amendments were deemed to have been put and are before us as per the time allocation motion.

The Chair of the committee of the whole House did indeed apologize for any perception of partisanship and indicated that she should have, in referring to the leader of my party, said the leader of the New Democratic Party and has apologized for that and has indicated that it was a slip which she regrets.

I think that in looking at this situation we have to understand, all of us, the context of this. We are in a rather extraordinary situation and all three chairs of the committee of the whole House have done extraordinary service to this Legislature, and they're all, I suspect, rather tired. I think it's quite understandable that one of them, perhaps all three of them, at one time or another, may indeed make a slip. For that she has apologized. The point is, though, the amendments are before us as per the time allocation motion, not because they were filed by anyone.

Finally the other point I want to make is that in committees generally, committee of the whole House or other committees of the Legislature which are chaired by members of the Legislature, it is not unusual for individuals to occupy the chair of committees, whether it be the committee of the whole House or other committees, that are dealing with amendments that at one time previously may have been filed even by themselves. They are still properly before the committee and can be dealt with in a non-partisan way by the chair of that committee. I would hope that would be an appropriate way of proceeding with this particular situation.

The Speaker: The member for Kingston and The Islands.

Mr Gerretsen: There are basically just two points I would like to make. First of all, I would draw your attention to how this matter started. It was the member for Nepean who specifically asked, and I happened to be watching this on television in my office, "Who filed these amendments?" He, in other words, knowing full well that the debate on all the particular motions that came before us had long ceased, as of 5 o'clock or 6 o'clock on Wednesday -- he knew full well that we were no longer in debate and he specifically egged on the Chair at the time by saying, "Who filed these amendments?" That's the first point. If he had not asked the question, then there would have been no need for her to say anything.

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The second point I would simply like to make is that I've only been in this House for two years, but as far as I'm concerned, all I've ever heard at any committee is that all amendments are either government amendments, Liberal amendments or NDP amendments. They are not the specific amendments of any specific person who belongs to any one of the parties. So it's totally immaterial as to who actually did the filing. They are filed on behalf of the party or the government that's filing them at that time.

As has been stated in each and every amendment that has been read aloud here, it is not a particular member's motion that is before this House, it is an NDP amendment or a motion to make a change to this particular bill. Quite frankly, I think to take issue with something like this -- and I totally concur with my colleague from Algoma that all the Chairs, irrespective of parties, over the last three or four days, have done an excellent and exemplary job. To now somehow take our frustrations out against a Chair who may have inadvertently made a slip of one word by saying "our party" rather than the New Democratic Party I think quite frankly is absurd.

Mr Baird: I think it's important at the outset to put something on the record. I know the member for Riverdale; I work with her every day and I can tell you that she's an honourable person. I don't think we can allow partisan battles to become so mean-spirited that it affects our good relations as legislators to work with one another. So this is not an issue with respect to her integrity or to her status as an honourable member, because I know her to be one.

I would argue that when I rose in my place, I asked and wanted to know who these amendments were made by. At the top of the amendment sheets that were provided to our party, it says, "I move," and obviously the person in question in the chair, or whoever it is, does on occasion read that. I was told no, the amendments have not been moved by anyone. The Chair at that time ruled that given the terms and conditions of the time allocation motion, they were deemed to have been moved, and she's right, and I acknowledged that the last time I got up.

It comes to the question of who filed the amendments. I didn't know who filed the amendments. I know in the case of our amendments, they were filed by the minister and his parliamentary assistant. So I asked in this place who filed the amendments. She at that occasion said parties presented amendments. "No particular person I can designate." I said parties can't present amendments; they have to be members of the Legislative Assembly to present these amendments. For example, community associations can't present amendments; associations, Citizens for Local Democracy, Citizens in Support of One Toronto can't present amendments; businesses can't present amendments; unions can't present amendments. They have to be presented by members of the Legislative Assembly in this place.

Given that fact, I asked point blank at 1007, "Who are they filed by?" Response -- I quote, and this is directly taken from the videotape: "I can tell you that I was one of the people who filed these, as well as the leader of our party and several other members of the NDP caucus." She filed those amendments. It's further in black and white, in colour, in picture, a picture of her filing the amendments, which is important to note. She filed these amendments and she knew that she would be in a position that she would be called upon under the terms and conditions of the time allocation motion she would be in a position to adjudicate these in committee of the whole, because we knew it was going to committee of the whole in a time allocation motion which was before the members presented the amendments. Obviously, there's a very strong need to have independent adjudication. That is represented as a part of natural justice in virtually every adjudication body which we have.

There's no Instant Hansard, so I would hope to be listened to.

The Speaker: I appreciate that.

Mr Baird: Would you like me to go over what I said earlier?

The Speaker: There's no need.

Mr Baird: What did I last say?

The Speaker: Member for Nepean, take your seat. I appreciate the time and the effort that you've put into this and I appreciate the time it is now. I'm listening to your submission. Please make it.

Mr Baird: I think it's imperative that these decisions be adjudicated in an independent manner and I believe, sir, that there's no option but to disallow the amendments that were filed by the member, both that these have already been half dealt with by this place and those that are before us, given that this independence has been compromised.

Section 27 of the standing orders has a relevant area to this -- not exactly, and I concede that. "27. No member is entitled to vote upon any question in which he or she has a direct pecuniary interest, and the vote of any member who has such an interest shall be disallowed." That's not directly related to the issue at hand, but I think it is extremely close that in the adjudication of that the individual in question filed the amendments. She says they were partly her amendments. I don't think there's any court or any other adjudicative body where when an individual is supposed to be there to provide independent, non-partisan adjudication, they have a -- "pecuniary" I think is a personal interest, if you check the thesaurus or a dictionary.

I think there's no alternative whatsoever but to set those amendments aside that were presented by someone who knew they would be called upon to adjudicate. This is not that we didn't know which committee it would go to. Under the terms of the time allocation motion it was very clear and very specific. For example, a critic would not chair a committee. We would not have the critic -- I know the member for Ottawa South, the member for Ottawa Centre at various times, the member for Nickel Belt has at various times chaired a committee. They don't present amendments as the Chair because they know they're going to be called upon to exercise an adjudicative function in the course of clause by clause, in the course of the conduct of the public hearings.

I don't think there's any option for those amendments but to say they've been compromised, those amendments we've dealt with and those amendments before the Clerk, to be set aside and deemed that they have been compromised. The amendments were clearly -- the member in question clearly said she had presented them. That's a direct quote. I take her at her word. We've got a picture of her doing it, clearly presenting the amendments. I think there's no other option than that they be put aside.

Mr Cordiano: I think the point of order is completely groundless that's been made by the members for S-D-G and Nepean. In fact, it is beneath members of this House to impute motives as pertains to the standing orders under section 23(i). What is being alleged in fact impugns the motives of the member for Riverdale, who sat in the chair and who I think is by all accounts and from every member of this House, when a member sits in the chair for committee of the whole or sits in fact as a Chair of any committee, we all take it that the member has, as considered by the entire House, the honour to sit in that chair and should be respected.

Again, what is being undertaken here is an undermining of members of this House who sit in the chair. This has been done repeatedly during the time I've been sitting in the House for the last six hours, where members have imputed motives on the part of the member who was sitting in the chair. I think that's unbecoming of any member of this House. It undermines the credibility of this assembly. Therefore, I would ask the members to withdraw their allegations.

Hon Mr Villeneuve: I am not in any way, shape or form imputing motives, absolutely not. Speaker, I ask you -- this will not be a precedent setter -- to go to the tape. You've gone to the tapes before. I ask you to go to the tape again if you figure I'm imputing motives.

Hon David Johnson: Point of order, Mr Speaker: I think it's very clear that the members of the government are not imputing motives. Indeed, the member for Nepean has indicated his high regard for the member for Riverdale, and I will too indicate my high regard for the member for Riverdale. Having known the member for several years in political life, I have a very high regard for her.

I think the issue at hand here is the Speaker's position, the Deputy Speaker's position. These are positions that somewhat remind with regard to Caesar's wife: there must not only be the -- she must not only be virtuous, but there must be the perception of being virtuous.

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The difficulty we have, and particularly in the context of the last several days, Mr Speaker, is because we are involved in very detailed and laborious, and frivolous in many cases, debate. We see decisions that have highlighted the need for absolute independence, absolute unbiased nature not only in reality but in perception. Perhaps that's what we're talking about, perception. Appearance of independence must be fully maintained, and that's what the problem is that we have: a ruling, for example, that was made with regard to when somebody said no in this Legislature a couple of days ago, when a "no" was said but was it before, was it after the word "carried," was it close enough or was it not close enough?

These are becoming important issues, unfortunately, so there is a need to look at this most seriously. It is evident that the member for Riverdale has indicated her involvement to the member for Nepean through filing the amendments, and I think the task is up to you, given the context of what's happened over the last several days, to determine if that doesn't render some doubt, at least in perception, about the independence of the position of the person in the chair. I think that's a most serious consideration, and in view of rulings that have taken place over the last several days I would ask you to give consideration to it.

The Speaker: Just before the member for Yorkview, I have a question to the government House leader. The ramification of that submission you make, the decision that you see to be taken is exactly what? That is what I am seeking. What are you asking me to do?

Hon David Johnson: My understanding is that the member for Nepean is at least asking that the amendments in question when the member was in the chair be set aside and I would think that at least should be investigated. I think you should investigate and take under consideration since the -- and this is a position. You know, when we're elected to this House we deal with the integrity officer, we go through a very serious --

The Speaker: The question's very clear. I'm just seeking --

Hon David Johnson: -- broader context of, in addition, all of the amendments that have been tabled, given the fact that the Chair has been involved, by her own admission, in filing those amendments, all of them, but specifically if you rule that there is no difficulty in regard to all of the amendments, at the very least you should look at the amendments which were considered when the member was in the chair.

The Speaker: I appreciate your points of order. As I said very early on, I'm willing to hear them all, but if you can, now that we've been around the horn here, give them to me in a very concise and direct manner, I'd really appreciate it, and if you feel that they've been submitted, I'd appreciate that as well.

Mr Sergio: I just want to add my views on this particular challenge to the Chair. I want to go back first of all to what the member for Nepean has said with respect to the member occupying the chair, the present Chair of the committee of the whole. I would say that order 27 does not apply. He has made a reference to voting. I could see if they had a problem if the Chair voted or attempted to vote on one of the amendments, if the Chair, were, let's say, taking sides. But we did not get to that particular point that the Chair was forced to vote.

The other thing is that we have already decided. This is the third time. The amendments have been introduced. To pick, if you will, for lack of better words, on a particular of the Chair of the House, other than the Speaker or some of the other appointed Deputy Speakers -- any other member of the House would have exactly the same problems. The amendments introduced by the third party or the opposition, the Liberal Party, are seen as amendments to the bill. No other member of our side should then, if this were to be the case, sit in that particular chair and chair the committee of the whole. For the same case, I would say the same thing would apply as well to Mr Galt, the member for Northumberland, who has been so valiantly chairing the committee of the whole, because there are amendments brought into the House by the government side. Nobody is complaining that he's taking any side with respect to those amendments.

I would say the amendments introduced by the third party are quite in order. They have been here already for awhile. Nobody has complained before. The Chair has made absolutely no attempt whatsoever. Every Chair, including the present Chair, has been very good in calling to the attention of both sides of the House the voting procedures, so I really don't see the benefit of this particular challenge.

Mrs Marland: I will be very brief and I will not repeat something that has been said. I think that the comments from the member for Lawrence about imputing motives were a little regrettable because they taint the point that is being made by a former honourable Speaker. I think that the member for S-D-G and East Grenville has been very clear in his point.

But another point that I hope you will consider is the point made by the member for Algoma, who said that everyone is tired and it is possible to make mistakes when everybody is tired, which I think everyone in this chamber will agree to at this point.

But further to that, the Chair, the member for Riverdale did say she was sorry, she issued her apology while she was still in the chair, whereby she was admitting that she had made a mistake. You know, we're into this situation for different reasons from different sides of the House, and we all understand that, but two days ago, when another Chair took a decision that something had not been said which in fact had been said by three honourable members --

The Speaker: The member for Mississauga South --

Mrs Marland: I haven't finished.

The Speaker: No, with the greatest respect to the member for Mississauga South, I am working on a point of order right now. That's the only reason I am in the House. It's very clear from committee of the whole to the House, I'm here for one reason and one reason only, and that is to hear points of order on a very specific point. You may try and make the point as germane. If you can tie that in somehow, I would appreciate it, but I would like you to do it very quickly and with some sense of timeliness.

Mrs Marland: Mr Speaker, I think it's very important that you go to the tapes and review for yourself, as you did the other day, around approximately 10:06 this morning. I think you will be able to draw the conclusion yourself which we will be happy with.

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and The Islands): Very quickly and just dealing with the point the government House leader brought up, number one, if it all relates to the picture that was in the Toronto Star, that picture was in there three or four days ago and I simply ask the question, why didn't the government members raise this issue before? Why did they wait for three days?

Number two, for him to call into question each and every amendment that was dealt with while the particular Chair was in the chair, if there was no concern about it beforehand, surely to goodness you wouldn't go back to any rulings that she made on those matters prior to this incident arising. That would be absolutely absurd. Because it looks to me as if the government is trying to stall this business when it claims publicly that it wants to move it along. Certainly by calling into question every one of the amendments that she dealt with is just another stalling tactic, as far as I'm concerned.

Hon Mr Leach: Mr Speaker, I'll be very brief. The government amendments were tabled by myself and my two parliamentary assistants -- the member for Oxford and the member for Scarborough East. I think that everyone would agree that it would be totally inappropriate for either of these parliamentary assistants who tabled motions to sit in the chair. I think this is a very similar set of circumstances.

The Speaker: Thank you for your submissions, to all sides. If you'd allow me to take 15 minutes to review this, I'll report.

The House recessed from 1211 to 1241.

The Speaker: I would like to thank all the members for their submissions to that particular point of order. Before addressing the special issue raised in this appeal, I think it would be very useful to set the context of where this House and where the committee of the whole is in its proceedings at this point.

A reference to the filing of amendments is a reference to a past proceeding; it is not before us now. A reference to amendments being deemed to have been moved is a reference to a past proceeding; it is not before us now. What is before us now is a very, very specific and detailed process, the process of voting in committee of the whole. I think it is important for all members to focus on what is properly being considered at the current time.

The House cannot function if the impartiality of the presiding officer is questioned. It is fundamental to the progress of business in this place that the committee Chairs, the presiding officers and indeed the Speaker are presumed to be neutral and non-partisan when they preside over the proceedings in a Parliament. The system we have that sees presiding officers of all three political parties is unique and has served in recent years to strengthen the office of Speaker and to strengthen that very presumption of neutrality.

It is my view that the presiding officers have executed their duties, in the past and most specifically over the last several days, with a degree of dignity that reflects well on all of us. My faith in their abilities and in the sensitivity to their unique roles has grown immensely, and I might say that this House owes them a huge debt of gratitude.

As to the issue at hand, I am of the view that simply because the Chair has acknowledged her membership in a particular political party does not mean that she has in any way diminished her ability to preside with fairness and neutrality. To suggest that just because a member has participated in filing of amendments means he or she cannot preside with fairness is a notion that would be tantamount to meaning that this place cannot function at all. Clearly, such a view cannot be allowed to stand. I uphold the ruling of the Chair.

As to the admissibility of amendments filed and now deemed moved by the party of which she is a private member, in view of the foregoing comments, I find them to be in order.

House in committee of the whole.

Mr Bill Murdoch (Grey-Owen Sound): Mr Chair, I just want to bring up a point of order, or a point of privilege, I don't know which it is, but due to all the filibustering and things that have been going on for the last few days, I myself and I think a lot of other people have forgotten about a very important day, and that is today, which is April 6, Tartan Day. I should have had my kilt on, but I want to say my good friend Al McLean is certainly dressed for the day. I wanted to bring that to the House because we've always celebrated and I've always worn my kilt here, and I should have today.

The First Deputy Chair: Thank you. It is certainly not a point of --

Mr Murdoch: Point of interest then.

The First Deputy Chair: Point of interest indeed. That does not mean I am setting a precedent in here, however, for taking points of interest.

NDP motion, subsection 24(4):

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunvegan Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunvegan Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion, please say "aye." Those opposed, please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote will be deferred.

I'll see you all in a few hours.

The Chair (Mr Gilles E. Morin): NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunview Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunview Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

1250

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dunwatson Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dunwatson Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duplex Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duplex Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duplex Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duplex Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-Woodbine): Point of order, Mr Chair.

The Chair: Point of order, the member for Beaches-Woodbine.

Mr Peter Kormos (Welland-Thorold): I have a point of order as well.

Ms Lankin: Oh, I'm sorry. My colleague had a point of order as well, but mine was for you to ascertain whether or not there is a quorum.

The Chair: Would you please verify if there is a quorum.

Acting Clerk at the Table (Ms Donna Bryce): Chair, a quorum is not present.

The Chair ordered the bells rung.

Acting Clerk at the Table: Chair, a quorum is now present.

The Chair: The member for Welland-Thorold, on a point of order.

Mr Kormos: The next amendment, sir, is to be withdrawn, the one referring to Dupont.

The Chair: Thank you. It is withdrawn.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dupont Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dupont Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durant Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durant Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

1300

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durban Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durban Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

Mr Kormos: Point of order, Chair: I wasn't present in the House midday yesterday and I'm loath to run afoul of the rules and standards of the House. I have a "No Means No" megacity button. Is this the type of button that's been outlawed?

The Chair: You're totally out of order. Take your seat.

Mr Kormos: Is this the type of button --

The Chair: You're out of order. That's been ruled by the Speaker yesterday. Please, take your seat. It's out of order.

Interjections: He's putting it on.

The Chair: You're not supposed to wear that, sir. If you wear it again, I'll have no other choice, no other alternative than to name you, sir.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durham Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durham Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public'" --

Mr Kormos: Here, Bill, I have a button for you.

Mr Murdoch: I took Bradley's yesterday.

The Chair: You're disturbing the House.

Mr Murdoch: I'm sorry. I said I was sorry.

The Chair: That's okay.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durie Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durie Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durness Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durness Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durnford Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durnford Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Durrington Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Durrington Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

1310

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dusay Place living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dusay Place living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dustan Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dustan Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dutch Myrtle Way living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dutch Myrtle Way living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Shall the motion carry? All those in favour of the motion will please say "aye." All those opposed will please say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. The vote is deferred.

Mr Kormos: On a point of order, Chair: The next amendment, which once again is identifiable as Dutch Myrtleway, should be withdrawn, please.

The Chair: It will be withdrawn.

The Second Deputy Chair (Mr Bert Johnson): This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duthie Street'" -- I'm sorry, is it pronounced Duthie Street, the member for Welland-Thorold? I need a little help.

Mr Kormos: I'll live with Duthie Street, sir, but we could both be wrong. The residents from Duthie Street are welcome to come here and advise us of that.

The Second Deputy Chair: Thank you.

-- "`the residents of Duthie Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duthie Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duval Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duval Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of DuVernet Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of DuVernet Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

1320

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Duxbury Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Duxbury Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dwight Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dwight Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Member for Cochrane South, do you have a point of order?

Mr Gilles Bisson (Cochrane South): No.

The Second Deputy Chair: Where was I? I was going to take the vote?

Mr Bisson: On 5.

The Second Deputy Chair: Had I read 5? Every once in a while I lose track of my place.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dyas Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dyas Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dynamic Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dynamic Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dynevor Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that'" --

I'm sorry, member for Welland-Thorold, do you have a point of order?

Mr Kormos: No, sir.

The Second Deputy Chair: You're standing and you're talking. I'm sorry, I can't tolerate that. As a courtesy I will let you stand, because I realize we're going through a very tedious, long thing and you have to put in many hours here, as I do, but I can't have you talking and standing. You can't stand and talk. I should explain that to you. In this tedious business, there are 249 words, there are 23 numbers, there are 50 punctuation marks and I have to be accurate on every one. I've only done eight now, but what I'm telling you is that my attention cannot be diverted at all. When you're standing and talking, I assume you have a point of order. So I don't mind you standing; I can go with that. But if you're standing and talking, I'm sorry. I don't want to belabour the point --

Mr Kormos: Chair, when I have a point of order I'm going to go, "Point of order," or words to that effect.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'm sorry, no, this is not debate. I'm telling you what the Chair needs and expects. Other than that, I will enforce the rules to every nth of it. I'm letting you stand as a courtesy, sir.

Mr Bisson: Just on the point of order, Speaker: Is it your suggestion that members are not able to stand and speak at the same time?

The Second Deputy Chair: I'll take that in the light sense that I'm sure you mean it.

Where was I?

Interjections.

The Second Deputy Chair: Member for Cochrane South, I'm sorry, but I must address the same comments to you. I don't mind you standing, but there's no talking. I'm sorry.

Mr Bisson: No, I'm just reading the standing orders.

The Second Deputy Chair: "`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no residents of Dyson Boulevard living in the urban area should be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied'" --

Mr Kormos: Chair, point of order.

The Second Deputy Chair: The Chair recognizes the member for Cochrane South on a point of order.

Mr Bisson: No.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'm sorry. I saw somebody standing and I thought I heard somebody say "Point of order."

Mr Bisson: It was the member for Welland-Thorold. When I say "point of order," I would go "point of order," but it was him.

The Second Deputy Chair: I don't want to trivialize this; I don't want to make a mockery of this thing. I saw two people standing; I heard "Chair, point of order," and I didn't know which one said it. I don't want you to make a mockery of this proceeding.

Mr Kormos: Point of order, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: Please take your seat. Before I proceed, I thought I came in here and I thought I could extend a courtesy and let you stand and so on. It's not working, so I'm sorry, you will sit in your place.

Mr Bisson: Oh, Bert.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'll change that if I find that you can get along within the rules.

The Chair recognizes the member for Welland-Thorold on a point of order.

Mr Kormos: Please, Chair, with respect to the amendment that you've just read, you read under subsection (4), "(4) Despite subsection (1)," then, with respect, Chair, you moved on to "may affect the residents of," omitting the words "no regulation that."

The Second Deputy Chair: Oh, I'm sorry. Thanks very much for bringing that to my attention, because as you realize, I'm trying to expedite this and I'm liable to make mistakes. I appreciate it. I'll read those back in. Would you like me to just repeat that whole paragraph?

Mr Kormos: Yes, sir.

1330

The Second Deputy Chair: Thanks very much. That is a point of order.

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Dyson Boulevard living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Dyson Boulevard living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

Mr Kormos: Point of order, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: The Chair recognizes the member for Welland-Thorold on a point of order, and with due respect I don't like the tone that you're using.

Mr Kormos: Chair, the next amendment is to be withdrawn, the one that refers to Eagle Lake.

The Second Deputy Chair: That is a point of order. It is done.

Mr Kormos: Thanks. Point of order, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: The Chair recognizes the member for Welland-Thorold on a point of order.

Mr Kormos: Thank you, Chair. The next amendment, which refers to Eagle, is to be withdrawn.

The Second Deputy Chair: Eagle N? It is done. That is a point of order.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eagle Point Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eagle Point Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eagle Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eagle Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material.'"

I want to address a comment to the member for Welland-Thorold. As I'm reading these, I'm contemplating, and I made a terrible mistake with you. I want to apologize. I mimicked you, I mocked you and I was very, very out of order. I ask you to --

Mr Kormos: Chair, please, never apologize, never explain. No offence.

The Second Deputy Chair: I say that in the most sincere way. I've reflected on it and I apologize.

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

As I go, I make mistakes, and I reflect and if I can fix anything up that I've done, I only want to do that.

Mr Kormos: Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and anybody here who wants to mimic my style, my tone of voice, is welcome to.

The Second Deputy Chair: This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eagledance Drive'" --

Mr Bisson: Point of order, Speaker.

The Second Deputy Chair: The Chair recognizes the member for Cochrane South. By now I recognize the voice.

Mr Bisson: Speaker, it is always a tradition in this House when a former member visits us that we acknowledge the presence of that former member. In this case --

The Second Deputy Chair: Order. That is not a point of order. Actually, we're not in debate. We are in committee of the whole. All we're doing is we're voting. We're reading into the record these motions. Any other time you would be absolutely right, but not now. It's not a point of order.

-- "`living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eagledance Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material.'"

I'm sorry, the member for Cochrane South, I realize you want to do something that's right, and we can do that if you would ask for unanimous consent.

Mr Bisson: Mr Speaker, I would ask for unanimous consent to acknowledge the presence of Gary Malkowski, a former member.

The Second Deputy Chair: Is there unanimous consent? It is agreed, yes.

Mr Bisson: I would like to acknowledge the presence of Gary Malkowski, the former member for York East.

The Second Deputy Chair: We welcome you to our proceedings this afternoon.

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eaglestone Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eaglestone Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eagleview Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eagleview Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

1340

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Eaglewing Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Eaglewing Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Ealing Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Ealing Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earl Grey Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earl Grey Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

Member for Welland-Thorold, are you just stretching your legs? I'll extend that courtesy as long as it's not taken advantage of. All of us have those things. I was a little late coming in. I've only been here half an hour; I've only done 20 of these. If you're following closely, I could go a little faster.

Mr Kormos: To be fair, Chair, to respond, 20 isn't bad, but you've done better. Quite frankly, you've done worse, so I'd say that's just fine.

The Second Deputy Chair: Yes, and I may need a courtesy back. I may at some point have to have you lip- read so that when my voice goes you can --

Mr Kormos: Thus, Chair, we are warming up to each other, aren't we? It's scary.

The Second Deputy Chair: This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earl Haig Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earl Haig Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

I just had a thought. While we're getting along, member for Welland-Thorold and so on, is there anything in the rules to say that when I'm reading this in the record I have to read it out loud?

Mr Bisson: On that point of order.

The Second Deputy Chair: I haven't ruled.

Mr Bisson: On that particular point of order: Normally when the committee Chair reads the amendment, it is useful for other members to hear it, so yes, you have to read it out loud.

The Second Deputy Chair: I don't want to get into a debate, but it just occurred to me. As I'm going here sometimes I think too.

Mr Bisson: Unless members were to develop extrasensory perception, ESP, it would be very hard for us to understand what it is you'd be saying, so for that reason you have to read it.

The Second Deputy Chair: You couldn't read my lips?

Mr Bisson: Do you want to read mine?

Mr Kormos: Chair, if I may, it's an interesting proposition, but if you were to do that we would have to enter your mind and there are certain places I simply don't want to go.

The Second Deputy Chair: Just a minute. I need a minute --

Mrs Marland: For rebuttal.

The Second Deputy Chair: No, to compose myself.

Mr David Turnbull (York Mills): On that same point of order, Chair: All of the members are equipped with earpieces. I would suggest if they're having difficulty hearing, they should put it on.

The Second Deputy Chair: That is not a point of order. I don't make a habit of letting people take people on, on the same point of order. It's just not my habit.

Mr Turnbull: Okay.

The Second Deputy Chair: This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earl Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the'" --

Mr Bisson: Are you having as much fun as I am.

The Second Deputy Chair: Either you'll have to speak up so I can hear.

Mr Bisson: It looks like you're having fun.

The Second Deputy Chair: We'll talk about that later. I don't want to hold it back.

I'm going to go back to the beginning of paragraph 1.

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earl Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraph 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

I'm not sure I included the "s" on the word "paragraphs" in the fifth paragraph, subsection iii. If I didn't, I put it on right now.

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earl Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earl Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earldown Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earldown Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

I'll be including the numbers on the paragraphs. It's going to be hard for me to keep track of those I've said yes to, but I think it's London Centre, Beaches-Woodbine and Dovercourt.

1350

NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlington Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlington Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

I must be cracking up. I thought I heard music.

Interjections.

The Second Deputy Chair: If anybody's having trouble hearing, listening, understanding or following -- the Chair recognizes the member for Port Arthur on a point of order.

Mr Gravelle: Yes, you're right, Chair, there is a rally going on outside, as we can all tell.

The Second Deputy Chair: Thanks. I thought I was cracking up.

Mr Gravelle: The protest rally is obviously a very large one, and as a result, the noise is coming into the chamber. So I guess I'm asking if you could perhaps speak up. Certainly it is more difficult to hear you and I know that even for those people who are watching on television it's probably still difficult to hear. I appreciate your sensitivity with that because you made reference to it previously. It would be helpful, I think, if you could do so.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'll do the absolute best I can. My voice is going but I'll do the absolute best that I can. The Chair recognizes the member for Cochrane South on a point of order.

Interjection.

The Second Deputy Chair: Then you will please take your seat. I thought we had an understanding that I was extending a courtesy to you and if you're going to stand, which I didn't object to, that you weren't going to talk.

Interjection.

The Second Deputy Chair: You were. I can't keep track of everything that is going on in this House and now outside too and extend courtesies that go beyond what I'm supposed to be doing if you're going to abuse it. I'm sorry.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlscourt living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied.'"

I wanted to ask the member for Beaches-Woodbine, you're following on this, you had been withdrawing all the ones that didn't have a street designation after them.

Ms Lankin: Yes, you're quite right, Mr Chair. I will withdraw this one.

The Second Deputy Chair: Earlscourt is withdrawn. I don't want anybody to think that I'm just going through these in a routine way. There are 249 words in each one and I have to think and keep track of people up and down as well.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlscourt Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlscourt Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`3. If 10 or more persons requested a public hearing within 30 days after the notice was given'" --

I'm sorry, I want to address some comments to the member who is out of his seat. I'm doing a very difficult job. I hope it's satisfactory, but if it isn't, please tell me. But I can't have interjections and talking across the floor and interruptions. It's just too difficult for all of the things that I have to keep track of. I would ask that if you're going to be talking, you'll have to go to your own seat and you'll have to conduct yourself in a manner that will be the way this House should be.

Mr Bisson: On a point of order, Chair: Just to be clear, there are three members out of their seats. Which one are you referring to? Just so that I'm clear.

The Second Deputy Chair: That is not a point of order. I'm starting at the word "a" halfway through the sentence in paragraph 3:

-- "`a public hearing has been held and the minister has considered all oral submissions made at the hearing.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is the request of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlsdale Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlsdale Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlthorpe Crescent living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlthorpe Crescent living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlton Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlton Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Early Apple Way living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Early Apple Way living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

1400

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earlywood Court living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earlywood Court living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earnbridge Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earnbridge Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earnest living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earnest living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

I would like to make a very unusual request: I would like permission to remove my jacket. Could I seek unanimous consent to that? I know that it is improper, but it is a warm day. Agreed? Agreed. The Chair recognizes the member for Cochrane South on a point of order.

Mr Bisson: Just before you take off your jacket, I believe that we do not have a quorum in the House. I would ask that quorum be checked.

The Second Deputy Chair: Good, I can take my jacket off while we're doing that. Would the table check to see if there's a quorum in the House?

Clerk at the Table (Ms Lisa Freedman): A quorum is not present.

The Second Deputy Chair ordered the bells rung.

Clerk at the Table: A quorum is now present, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: We will proceed. I think I was just starting Earnescliffe Road.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earnescliffe Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earnescliffe Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`3. If 10 or more persons requested a public hearing within 30 days after the notice was given,'" --

Order. I'm very sorry, but I have a very difficult job to do here this afternoon. I have to read a motion that includes 249 words, 23 numbers and 50 pieces of punctuation, and I ask for order and I have to have it. I can't keep track of all of this -- the noise outside -- every word and punctuation mark with noise going on back and forth and in this House. Am I making myself clear? I left off after the comma after the word "given" in the third paragraph.

-- "`a public hearing has been held and the minister has considered all oral submissions made at the hearing.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Earswick Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Earswick Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of Easson Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of Easson Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Avenue living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Avenue living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

1410

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Bay Road living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Bay Road living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Beaver Creek living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Beaver Creek living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Don Roadway living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Don Roadway living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee that this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Haven Drive living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Haven Drive living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the request of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:

"`Public consultation

"`(4) Despite subsection (1), no regulation that may affect the residents of East Liberty Street living in the urban area shall be made unless the following conditions have first been satisfied:

"`1. The minister has given notice of the proposed regulation, in a manner that will come to the attention of the residents of East Liberty Street living in the urban area.

"`2. The minister has considered all written submissions made by members of the public that his office received within 30 days after the notice was given.

"`4. The minister shall give three weeks' notice of a public hearing, in the same manner as the notice under paragraph 1.

"`5. The notice under paragraph 1 shall,

"`i. include a copy of the proposed regulation,

"`ii. tell members of the public where and how to obtain, without charge, a copy of this act together with background material,

"`iii. advise members of the public of their rights under paragraphs 2, 3 and 4,

"`iv. advise members of the public where their written submissions and requests for a public hearing should be sent.'"

Is it the wish of this committee this motion carry? All those in favour say "aye." All those opposed say "nay." In my opinion, the nays have it. This vote is deferred.

Mr Bisson: On a point of privilege, Chair: I've been following intently your reading of the amendments and the last couple of amendments have been quite fine. The problem is, however, your voice is going down to the point that it's very hard to hear you, number one. Number two is that I have had a number of calls at my office about your reading the amendments quickly. There are a large number of people in the francophone community watching this who are not able to keep up with you at that speed. I would ask you to slow down just a bit so that the translators can keep up to you, out of respect for the community.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'll come to that point of privilege. I want to address members in the gallery. We're very pleased that you're here observing the democratic process. This is your provincial Legislature, and we're very pleased that you're here. But the rules are that there are absolutely no demonstrations, and that means clapping, waving, talking, anything like that. The rules are very strict. The members down here can do almost anything they please and it's kind of tolerated. But the rules are very strict and I have to enforce the rules that this Legislature has laid down. They're very long and tedious and fill volumes of books. I wouldn't want to see somebody ejected on this nice afternoon. That's enough notice.

I'm addressing the member for Cochrane South on a point of privilege. Your privilege is?

Mr Bisson: There were two points of privilege. The first one was that as you're reading these amendments your voice is going down and it's hard to follow you, hard to listen to what you're reading. The second point is you're reading so fast that the translators who are translating for the French language cannot keep up. I've had a number of calls on that. I would ask you, out of respect for the francophones who are watching, to slow down a little bit so that they're able to follow along, as is anybody else if they're able to listen to you.

Mrs Marland: Use your earphones.

The Second Deputy Chair: Order. It's my job to make sure that every rule is obeyed. I have to address things of privilege so I need order in this House when I'm doing that.

The part about my voice going down: The air is very dry in here. I don't know if you've noticed it but I noticed the member for Algoma coughing when he first came in. It's very dry. I'm trying to have some water to do that. I'm sorry. I can't do a darn thing about my voice.

The speed and things like that: There are two things. One is that there are a lot of words in this amendment that are repeated. It's very repetitious, I should say. I have slowed down. I want to address that issue. I have been in this chair just about an hour and 10 minutes. I have done 45 of these now.

1420

Mr Gerretsen: That's not true. Mr Chair, there's a sign being held up there.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'm addressing the member for Cochrane South.

Mr Gerretsen: Turn it the other way around.

The Second Deputy Chair: Please come to order.

I can tell you that I have slowed down. I have done 10, 12 or 15 of these two-hour sessions reading these into the record, and that's what I'm to do. On one two-hour shift I did 103, so I can tell you that I have slowed down tremendously. I find that if I slow down too much I stumble and slur and stuff like that. I'm trying to do the very best I can.

Mr Bisson: I've got a further point of order, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: That was your point of privilege. The Chair recognizes the member for Cochrane South on a point of order.

Mr Bisson: You would know, Mr Chair, that according to the standing orders it is not in order for members to display signs in the Legislature, and if you're doing so it is even further out of order if you're doing it from out of your own seat. The member for Mississauga South is displaying signs in the Legislature --

The Second Deputy Chair: Order.

Mr Gerretsen: On the same point of order, Chair --

The Second Deputy Chair: No. It's not my habit to take debate on points of order. Please take your seat.

Mr Gerretsen: On a different point of order, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: Please take your seat. I'm addressing the member for Cochrane South on a point of order. I don't want to trivialize this thing. I don't want to make a mockery of this process. I'm trying to do the absolute very best I can. I make a lot of mistakes, and if I do I'll do anything I can to fix them, correct them, remedy them or whatever. But I can't tolerate if anybody is making a mockery of this process. I'm trying to address the member for Cochrane South on a point of order and I'm being interrupted.

Member for Cochrane South, you are absolutely right: That is a point of order. I addressed the demonstration, the sign, and I corrected it. Is there anything else that I should do? I'm sorry, you can't debate it. Just yes or no. I don't want to debate it.

Mr Bisson: Yes, there is something you can do.

The Second Deputy Chair: Yes, please tell me then.

Mr Bisson: All you can do is you can bring the member under order. That's all I'm asking.

The Second Deputy Chair: I did that once. Once should be enough. Let me be very clear: You're saying and I'm saying that bringing a person to order once should be sufficient.

Mr Gerretsen: On a point of order, Chair: It deals with the same issue in a slightly different way. The member held up a sign --

The Second Deputy Chair: No. Please take your seat. I want to explain to you. When I'm addressing you, I don't know how you can listen to me when you're talking. I want to be very specific. We are in committee of the whole. We are under a time allocation motion and there is no debate allowed. As far as getting up and somebody on a point of order and somebody on another point of order, it isn't my habit to allow that. That's why I called you to order the first time. Then you got up and you said there was a new point of order. I want to explain to you because maybe we can save some time if I could explain it to you and we could get by it without having to make a ruling on it.

A point of order is that we're doing something wrong here. Mostly it's me who's doing something wrong, but it could be other members. If we're doing something wrong, then that's a point of order. Bring it to my attention and I'll try to correct it and fix it up and get it remedied. So when you get up you should be able to tell me what we are doing wrong. Now, the Chair recognizes the member for Kingston and The Islands on a point of order.

Mr Gerretsen: My point of order quite simply is this: First of all, you're not doing anything wrong; the members are doing something wrong. It is wrong for a member to hold up a sign that says that this costs $10,000 an hour when in fact the costs of this place are continuous --

The Second Deputy Chair: Please take your seat. I think I have already ruled on that twice with the member for Cochrane South, and we already agreed that once was enough. Now this is the third time. Just a moment. Please take your seat. As you realize, I can do everything here, but I cannot do it all at once. No, please take your seat. I'll get back to you.

Mr Dan Newman (Scarborough Centre): On a point of order, Chair: I know that all members would want to abide by the rules of this place and that means the Liberal Party, the NDP, and the Conservative Party. You've made a ruling about signs and other Chairs have. But right beside the member for Beaches-Woodbine is box 2 of the 12,000 or so amendments that clearly has the NDP sign displayed on it in various locations. I would ask you to have that party remove that sign. I'm sure the phones in my office are ringing right now over this.

Interjections.

The Second Deputy Chair: Order. I'm making a ruling here. I'm trying to listen. Actually I consider this a fairly difficult job. I think anybody can do it but you have to have a little practice. What I'm saying is I need order, and I'm addressing the member for Scarborough Centre on a point of order. I'm sure, after the Speaker's ruling yesterday on political statements in this House, that this will be remedied. If it isn't, I want to know it very quickly.

Mr Newman: It's still there. I can see it. I have very good eyesight.

The Second Deputy Chair: I'm going to address the member for Beaches-Woodbine. I wonder if you could put that box on the other side of you.

Interjections.

The Second Deputy Chair: Order. This is a very difficult job and I'm trying to do it to the best of my ability, as limited as it is, and I want order. The problem that was addressed is being remedied so I'd like to proceed if I could.

Ms Lankin: On a point of order, Chair: I attempted to comply with you. There isn't quite enough room but I've turned it at an angle in which whatever it was that was offensive to the member is not visible. I hope that meets with the intention of your direction.

The Second Deputy Chair: Thank you. Whatever it is, it's fairly bland or whatever.

1430

Mr Newman: On a point of order, Chair: I can see right from this place here "NDP" on the side of that box. You can still see it here and I'd ask you to have that removed, Chair.

The Second Deputy Chair: I would ask the member for Beaches-Woodbine to make it invisible to --

Mr Gerretsen: Shut your eyes; close your eyes, you can't see it.

The Second Deputy Chair: We'll ask the Sergeant at Arms to take a look at it; I'm not going to make that ruling.

My ruling is that it meets the requirements of the Speaker's ruling and if you would like to challenge that, then that is your right under the rules of this House.

Mr Newman: Chair, with all due respect, I must challenge your ruling on this.

The Second Deputy Chair: We'll await the presence of the Speaker.

The committee rose and requested a ruling of the Speaker.

1440

The Speaker: Please be seated.

The Second Deputy Chair: Mr Speaker, we had a point of order raised that regarded the ruling I made on the political signage and statements that were being made in the House. One of the members endeavoured to remedy the situation not exactly the way I might have preferred or that I might have instructed, and the member for Mississauga Centre felt that it didn't meet the standards that he thought I had set. I had a member of the staff look into it and I was assured that it shouldn't be offensive. The member challenged my ruling on that.

Mr Newman: Mr Speaker, I rise today with respect to the NDP having a box in here with the NDP name right on the box and clearly visible. I've risen several times before in the House about issues like this. The box right next to the member for Beaches-Woodbine had "NDP" on it. After I stood on that point of order she removed one of the NDP signs and simply turned the box in another direction with the NDP sign still being there. Although I can't see it from here, Mr Speaker, the fact is that it is here in this House, and I think the member for Beaches-Woodbine admits that it is.

I think you have ruled, and other Chairs have ruled, that political demonstrations are not in order in this House. Simply turning the box doesn't make the problem go away; you simply move the box back and have the NDP signs visible. I wouldn't rise on a frivolous matter, because this isn't, Mr Speaker. I would ask you to rule on this and ask the member for Beaches-Woodbine and all members of not only the NDP but the Liberal Party, and the Conservative Party for that matter, to remove anything that may have their party name on it.

There's nothing on this side of the House that has the party name on it, but I know that members opposite have signs with the NDP name on them.

Ms Lankin: Mr Speaker, I have full respect for the ruling you made with respect, for example, to buttons. As you can see -- and I'm someone who wore a button every day in this Legislature -- I've ceased that practice as a result of your ruling. I have attempted to ensure that any documents or anything we're using is not in any way material that could be interpreted as a demonstration. I would say that for it to be a demonstration, it has to be demonstrable, which does mean it has to be in sight and being shown and being displayed.

As you know, we have many boxes with thousands of pages in them with copies of the amendment so that we can follow along. I've attempted, not because I thought there was anything wrong, because quite frankly these are down on the floor between desks, to keep them out of sight of the Legislature. In order to facilitate moving along, because it wasn't a big issue to me, I attempted to move the box in such a way that it was no longer offending the member and that the particular label he was objecting to wasn't visible to him or to other members in the Legislature.

I would point out that in his challenge to the Chair he indicated that he could still see it, although he has corrected himself on the record now, indicating he can't see it. I did attempt to comply with the concern that had been raised by the Chair. He seemed to think it was fine.

Last, I just want you to know that I have ensured that nobody has come near this area and I've kept the evidence intact, should you wish to look and see it for yourself. But I assure that it was viewed by the staff at the table, who have looked at it and indicated that there is nothing visible at this point.

The Speaker: The ruling -- I don't think I need to recess on it. Actually, I think I do. Let me reconsider that. Let's take a 10-minute recess and just review the submission.

The House recessed from 1446 to 1456.

The Speaker: I'd like to thank those people who made the submissions on the point of order. I want to make two comments with respect to this point of order. The first one is very simple: I'll uphold the ruling of the Chair and I think that's, first and foremost, to say, directly.

Second, I'd like say I've watched these proceedings intermittently for the last few days and I myself have noticed that on some shots that have been taken in here you can see the stickers on the box. I want to say to the opposition, and specifically to the NDP, I think the member for Scarborough Centre is making a very valid point of order, in the respect that if you can see it from the camera, would you please rip the stickers off the box. Thank you.

Ms Lankin: Most of them are gone.

The Speaker: Well, I'm not in the debate here, but let's not do most; let's get them all off the boxes.

House in committee of the whole.

The Second Deputy Chair: We're ready to proceed with this very important business.

This is an NDP motion:

"I move that section 24 of the bill be amended by adding the following subsection:"

Hon Mr Harnick: On a point of order, Mr Chair: I do not believe that it is in order for you to read every amendment, based on the practices of this Legislature. I would ask you to rule on that based on the practices of this Legislature.

The committee recessed from 1500 to 1505.

The Second Deputy Chair: I want to address my ruling to the minister. My ruling is that members have a right to know what they are voting on. I will therefore read the amendments unless the process is dispensed with. That is my ruling. You have a right to appeal this to the Speaker.

Hon Mr Harnick: Mr Chair, I'd like to respectfully appeal that to the Speaker.

The Second Deputy Chair: We await the arrival of the Speaker.

The committee recessed from 1506 to 1523, having requested a ruling of the Speaker.

Report continues in volume N.

6 avril 1997