Journal des débats 1984-mai-15 | Assemblée législative de l'Ontario

Mr. McLean: Mr. Speaker, on a point of privilege: I rise to ask this Legislature to recognize and show its appreciation for the fine effort put out by the Orillia Junior A Travelways hockey team. This team has become the pride of Orillia and all Simcoe county. In a magnificent display of sportsmanship, the Orillia Travelways team managed not only to win the all-Ontario championship but to come out on top of all eastern Canada.

Finally, through a unique blend of individual effort and overall teamwork, enthusiasm and skill, this band of young people battled through seven games before being forced to admit defeat for the national Junior A title in Weyburn, Saskatchewan.

They deserve the recognition of this Legislature, not only because of their remarkable achievement and the skill and effort they have given their chosen sport but also because of the example they have given to young people in Orillia and throughout Ontario of what hard work, dedication and willingness to work together can achieve.

This team has brought honour to Orillia. They have joined Brian Orser and others who have shown that Simcoe county stands second to none when it comes to producing excellence on the skating rink. I ask this House to show its appreciation to these young people as a sign to them that all Ontario supports their efforts and their good sportsmanship.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

INVESTITURE OF GOVERNOR GENERAL

Hon. Mr. Wells: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the government, the members of this House and all the people of Ontario, I would like to extend our best wishes to Canada's new Governor General, Mme Jeanne Sauvé, at the time of her investiture to this very high office.

As Her Majesty's representative in Canada, the Governor General embodies our most valued traditions of loyalty to the crown and our commitment to parliamentary democracy. In Mme Sauvé, Her Majesty has found an ideal representative and the Canadian people have found a worthy person to govern them and reflect their identity.

Yesterday I was privileged to attend the ceremonies in Ottawa and I can attest to the dignity and intelligence Mme Sauvé brings to the vice-regal post. Her appointment marks the first time in the history of this country that a woman has served as Governor General. It is fitting that such an honour should belong to Mme Sauvé, a woman who has been at the forefront of the efforts of Canadian women to have a stronger voice in the councils of this nation.

While Mme Sauvé accomplished her achievements in Ottawa, women were also assuming greater roles of influence in Ontario. I think, of course, as many in this House will, of the Honourable Pauline McGibbon, the first woman to serve as a Lieutenant Governor in Canada. I also think of my colleague the member for Scarborough East (Mrs. Birch), the first woman to serve in an Ontario cabinet. Public life in this province and this country has been enriched by their contributions.

As a member of Parliament, as a minister of the crown and as a Speaker of the House of Commons, Mme Sauvé has acquired a wide knowledge of Canada and a deep appreciation for the ideals of its people. The Governor General's address yesterday, with its emphasis on unity, nation building and peace, demonstrated her special sensitivity to our shared aspirations and her ability to inspire the people of this country to greater achievements.

As Mme Sauvé assumes her new duties, we extend our warmest wishes for her continued good health and we look forward with great anticipation to her many visits with the people of Ontario.

Mr. Conway: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the official opposition, I want to support the sentiments expressed on behalf of the government by the government House leader (Mr. Wells).

I was pleased to hear that he attended at that ceremony yesterday. Driving down from Pembroke and listening to the national radio service of the Canadian Broadcasting Corp., I got the impression that it was very much a day for pomp and circumstance. Certainly I and my colleagues in the official opposition want to wish Mme Sauvé all the very best in the important vice-regal responsibilities she has now assumed.

Mr. Martel: Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the New Democratic Party, I want to join with the government House leader in wishing Mme Sauvé well.

Following on the heels of a great, now-retired Governor General who did a yeoman task, I know she is going to serve equally well as the first woman in that capacity. Probably the most difficult job in any House is that of Speaker. God knows, with some of the people who occupy those benches, she did that job with dignity.

As one listens to the goals she has set for herself, one cannot help but be impressed by her concerns for world peace, for children and so on. We would like to wish her not only success but also continued good health in her very onerous tasks in the years that lie ahead.

Mr. Roy: Mr. Speaker, I have been prevailed upon by my colleagues to say a few words as one of the few francophones left in this Legislature who is not on the committee that has gone -- to New Orleans, is it, Nouvelle-Orléans?

Je pourrais, M. le Président, de la part de mes collègues, ceux qui ne sont pas ici, dire quelques mots en français concernant la nomination de Mme Sauvé. Je voudrais dire simplement que, de la part de l'Assemblée, nous sommes extrêmement fiers de voir qu'une personne, non simplement la première femme à avoir ce poste-là --

Interjections.

Mr. Roy: Are we listening to me or not?

Interjections.

Mr. Roy: Mr. Speaker, I want you to be harsh on those who interrupt me.

Mr. Speaker: They are your own colleagues.

2:10 p.m.

Mr. Roy: Whether they are or not, I trust they will allow me to continue.

Je disais, M. le Président, que Mme Sauvé, c'est certain, va remplir ce poste avec beaucoup de courage, beaucoup de flair et beaucoup de compétence. Elle va le faire non simplement parce qu'elle a démontré sa compétence comme une femme dans le passé, mais elle peut opérer la liaison dans les deux langues officielles. Je dis à mon collègue le Premier ministre de se contenter de comprendre que la représentante de la Reine doit être capable de dialoguer dans les deux langues officielles.

Et à part ça, Mr. Speaker, I would underline another important aspect of Mme Sauvé. She happens to be a francophone from Saskatchewan.

Mr. Nixon: All centred in Willow Bunch.

Mr. Roy: She is from another small town called Prud'homme, farther north in Saskatchewan. I thought it was important that from this assembly, where, of course, both official languages are recognized, we have un petit mot, un bon mot et un mot important pour Mme Sauvé.

Mr. Villeneuve: M. le Président, il me fait plaisir d'appuyer mon confrère d'Ottawa-est et de saluer le nouveau Gouverneur général et lui souhaiter toute la bonne chance possible.

NATIONAL POLICE WEEK

Hon. G. W. Taylor: En français, M. le Président?

Mr. Speaker, this is National Police Week, and I know the honourable members will want to join with me in expressing their appreciation to those dedicated men and women who serve us so ably across our province.

In our increasingly complex society, police work has never been more demanding, and the fact that Ontario continues to be served well by our police officers and that they continue to enjoy a high level of public support says much about the quality of the people who serve our citizens in the police function.

The slogan for National Police Week this year is "Police and Community Working Together," altogether appropriate in view of the increasing number of our citizens involved in crime prevention programs across the province. What it represents is the continuing focus of the Ministry of the Solicitor General and the police forces across this province on encouraging citizens to take steps to protect their own property and for the community to participate with the police.

As Solicitor General, I am encouraged by the willingness of more and more of our citizens to get involved and to assist police in Ontario in the vital area of crime prevention. For instance, in the war against drinking and driving, citizens' groups such as PRIDE, People To Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere, and ADD, Against Drunk Driving, are making invaluable contributions in educating their fellow citizens about the menace of drinking and driving.

The Neighbourhood Watch programs, as another example, have also proved to be effective in reducing the crime rate in some areas.

This year as well the Ontario Provincial Police celebrates its 75th anniversary. The history of the Ontario Provincial Police will be the theme of displays in shopping malls in a number of Ontario centres. The OPP Pipes and Drums and the Golden Helmets motorcycle precision team will be appearing throughout the province during this week.

Many police forces will be hosting open houses and presenting displays. I hope all members and their constituents will take the opportunity to drop in on our local police forces and express their support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks to the 18,000 police officers in Ontario who serve all of us in such an able fashion.

NATURAL GAS INCENTIVE PRICING PLAN

Hon. Mr. Andrewes: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that an industrial natural gas incentive pricing plan is to be implemented in Ontario retroactive to May 1, 1984. The outline of this plan was announced by the ministers of energy for Canada and Alberta on April 26 and will provide for discounts to large industrial gas users in eastern Canada, including about 270 in Ontario.

The incentive plan results from a process of negotiation between the governments of Canada and Alberta in consultation with many interested parties, including my ministry. The plan reflects many of the views expressed by the Ministry of Energy, by the Ontario gas distributors and by the industry in Ontario. The specifics of implementation in Ontario will be put into effect through operating agreements between the Alberta Petroleum Marketing Commission and the Ontario natural gas distributors.

The discounts will have a positive effect on the health of Ontario industry, contributing to the preservation of existing jobs and the creation of new jobs as our competitive position improves.

It is not by any means a complete answer to the competitive difficulties of Ontario industry, but it will help. Moreover, this incentive pricing plan represents a small but significant step in the right direction to more market-sensitive pricing for natural gas.

As the current pricing arrangement between Canada and Alberta draws to a close at the end of the year, I will be pressing for further steps to adjust natural gas prices to the realities of the market.

On May 30, 1984, I am convening a conference for industrial gas users. About 100 of Ontario's larger industries have been invited to this conference, along with representatives of the federal and Alberta governments, natural gas producers, pipelines and distributors. The conference will provide a forum for Ontario industries to highlight the impact of natural gas prices on their competitive situations.

There will also be reports on the gas marketing situation in the United States and how the gas industry in Canada is responding to the concerns of the industrial sector.

The need for natural gas price adjustments is by no means limited to the industrial sector and I will be urging the governments concerned to address this issue.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT SPENDING

Mr. Riddell: Mr. Speaker, I have a question of the Premier. In this period of restraint and the restricted government funding for the important services in this province, why was it necessary for two ministers of the crown to fly to Centralia last Friday in separate aircraft to participate in the opening of a $250,000 project at the Centralia College of Agricultural Technology?

Since the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Timbrell) was attending the graduation at the college the same day, would it not have sufficed for that minister to have represented the Minister of Government Services (Mr. Ashe) at the ribbon-cutting ceremony of the new college facility?

Hon. Mr. Davis: Mr. Speaker, I can recall some discussion last week where the honourable member certainly indicated his desire to be there and how important this was to his community, and very properly so. I am sure the same member would be disappointed and perhaps critical if the appropriate ministers of this government had not been in attendance. I am surprised he would feel the Minister of Government Services should not have been there.

Mr. Riddell: Would the money spent in flying two ministers to open that project not have been better spent in the area of hospitalization for people who are actually dying for want of hospital beds; for education, where we know there is restricted funding and young people are suffering; and for businesses such as farmers who are certainly struggling in this day and age to survive?

Do we need to have that kind of wasteful government expenditure in flying two ministers in two separate planes to the opening of a new building when people are wanting for money in health care and education and many other important services in this province?

Hon. Mr. Davis: I was just confirming the circumstances with the Minister of Agriculture and Food. As I understand it, the Minister of Government Services had an appointment or commitment at noon of that day in Oshawa. He did fly to Centralia and the two ministers came back in the same aircraft.

The member can help me with this. For the sake of argument, my guess is the flying time from Field Aviation Company Ltd. to Centralia by King Air is probably in the neighbourhood of 35 minutes. I forget what the cost per ministry is. I think it is around $300 or more per hour, which if one were to do it on the basis --

Mr. Nixon: All of those planes are on permanent lease.

2:20 p.m.

Hon. Mr. Davis: With great respect, it is not. The Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Pope) can give the member the precise figures, but with respect to that flight I guess we are talking somewhere in the neighbourhood of $300 or $350, if one took the full hour. That is just an approximation.

No one is suggesting we should not economize. I can assure the member that ministers do fly together to a number of those meetings in northwestern Ontario and other parts. They get along with one another. They talk to one another.

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Unlike the Liberal caucus.

Hon. Mr. Davis: Unlike the Liberal caucus, the Minister of Agriculture and Food interjected.

I can only say to the honourable member that we make every effort not to have duplication of these services. To put it in perspective, the member is talking of roughly an hour's flying time. To be specific, I guess it would be around 35 minutes.

Mr. Riddell: I wonder if the Premier would take the time to talk to the business community, the teachers, the boards of education and the hospital workers of this province to find out from them what $300 an hour would actually mean if it were applied to their services rather than to flying two ministers to attend one opening of a $250,000 project in my riding. Will he take the time to talk to those people?

Hon. Mr. Davis: I probably talk to more members of the teaching profession than he does, Mr. Speaker, and I perhaps talk to as many in the farm community and probably more in the business community. I have never found any of those groups to be overly critical of the things we do as a government. I would ask the member to check with the Ontario Secondary School Teachers Federation.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: As to how many planes they own.

Hon. Mr. Davis: There was a day when they owned their own aircraft. The member may even find that is still the case.

I would say we are very careful on this issue on a comparative basis with those people with whom the member some days wishes to be associated and other days wishes not to be associated, with those people for whom he does not want to carry the can one day and is prepared to carry the can the next day, depending on whether the polls are up or down. This government has exercised far more discretion and efficiency in the use of that form of transportation than has the government of Canada.

MINAKI LODGE

Mr. Eakins: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Tourism and Recreation. He will recall discussions during the review of previous estimates regarding the hiring practices for personnel for Minaki Lodge. I am sure he will recall that in speaking with him and Mr. Fred Boyer there was some indication it was very difficult to get skilled young people to work in certain jobs at Minaki Lodge in northwestern Ontario.

Can the minister indicate the number of staff who have been hired or are going to be hired for this season? Can he indicate if Ontario young people are urged to apply? Are they afforded first opportunity for employment before he recruits in Winnipeg as he did last year?

Hon. Mr. Baetz: Mr. Speaker, I will be prepared to provide some information on this subject because, after all, as the member opposite knows, Minaki Lodge is by far the largest employer in that area. It is very important for young people and others to find employment there. We will certainly be reporting to let the member know how many from Ontario and how many from the neighbouring province of Manitoba and elsewhere have received employment.

Mr. Eakins: Could the minister indicate where he recruits for young people to take positions at Minaki Lodge? Could he outline the hiring practices?

Hon. Mr. Baetz: We give preference to young people from Ontario, but we will also give some opportunity to young people from Manitoba, particularly from Winnipeg. Many of our neighbouring Manitobans visit the lodge. They are some of our best clients. The first preference would go to the young people of our own province, and not only to the young people but to those people of other ages who live in the Minaki district.

I have told the member before that Minaki is one of the major employers. That is one reason it is there; it is a major employer in that part of the province.

Mr. Philip: Mr. Speaker, in addition to how many jobs are created, would the minister indicate how many of those jobs are full-time as compared to part-time? Can he also indicate the total cost to the taxpayers to date in creating each of those jobs?

Hon. Mr. Baetz: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated earlier, I am prepared to tell the member how many full-time jobs are there and how many part-time jobs are there. This is a tremendous economic impetus, and I do not view it in the cynical way the member opposite views it, in terms of how much it costs the taxpayer. We are providing employment opportunities up there, as we promised we would do.

Mr. Eakins: If one of the major problems is securing skilled young people to work in certain positions at Minaki, what input has the minister made to the Minister of Colleges and Universities (Miss Stephenson) to make available more places in community colleges to train more of our young people?

Many who want to participate in the tourism industry are turned away from skilled opportunities. As the minister knows, we have the largest tourism debt in history in this province at present and we need to reverse it. What is the minister doing to have more input with the Minister of Colleges and Universities to make more opportunities for young people to attend colleges?

Hon. Mr Baetz: I am sure the Minister of Colleges and Universities could answer that question very adequately herself.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Baetz: As the member opposite knows, there are many programs right now in our community colleges designed to train our future workers in the tourism industry. As he also knows, we have very recently assisted, together with the federal government and others, in opening the Ontario Hostelry Institute, a very major and significant step forward in developing in this province skilled workers for our ever-growing and burgeoning tourism industry.

Quite frankly, to keep on saying here that tourism is in trouble, that it is in a deficit position, I do not think adequately describes the situation. The number of tourists coming into this province, especially from the United States, is growing quite remarkably from last year. If the member wants evidence of that --

Mr. Eakins: Yes, it is down.

Hon. Mr. Baetz: It is not down.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Baetz: A few weeks ago I was at the Minneapolis sports show where 160 of our tourist operators from northwestern Ontario were with their wares. They told me, and they will tell the member if he asks them, the number of tourists coming back to their resorts is way up over last year.

EMPLOYMENT IN SUDBURY

Mr. Laughren: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Premier. He may know the federal government has just published a report, entitled Canada's Nonferrous Metals Industry: Nickel and Copper: A Special Report, 1984. I hope he also knows one of the observations in that report is that Canada's nickel and copper producers and the communities dependent on them are in a more vulnerable position today than at any time in their history.

In view of that comment in the federal report and in view of the fact that we are expecting lower levels of employment in the ferrous metal industry in the Sudbury basin because of attrition, because of technology replacing persons on the job -- and we also know that in the first 10 months of 1984 approximately 8,800 people will be going off unemployment insurance benefits; we do not know where they are going to go, but they will be dropping off unemployment insurance benefits --

Mr. Speaker: Question, please.

Mr. Laughren: -- could the Premier tell us what we can expect in the way of job-creation initiatives specifically applicable to the Sudbury basin?

Hon. Mr. Davis: Mr. Speaker, I have not read the report, although I am aware of it. I think much of the content of that report was relatively predictable. The honourable member has raised some of the same concerns expressed in the report that others have had for the past several years.

2:30 p.m.

With respect to the longer-term prospects for the nickel industry or copper industry, we have debated those in this House, including the impact of offshore developments, what was happening, and I guess is not happening at the moment in Guatemala, and the impact on the nickel market generally. There is no question there have been certain changes in sources of supply. There is no question Sudbury or Canada is no longer the prime supplier of nickel. This situation has changed and we understand it. The Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Pope) will be meeting later on today and tomorrow with other ministers of mines across Canada on matters relating to this report and other issues. We hope they will have some insight as to the longer-term prospects of the industry.

In terms of what really was a second question, whether I was aware of the report, I have not read it, but I am generally aware of its contents. In terms of people who will be coming off UIC benefits over the next period of time, it is a matter of concern to this government. I am not sort of passing the buck. It is something I am sure our Minister of Natural Resources will be raising with his federal counterparts.

In terms of other job opportunities in the Sudbury basin, I do not say for one moment we have any easy or simplistic answer to this situation. I can recall very vividly two and a half years ago, not at the request of the member for Sudbury East (Mr. Martel) but certainly with his endorsation, this government entered into what was a locally initiated program, an assessment within the Sudbury area, to find alternatives.

I think a great deal of local initiative was shown. We are quite prepared to support any viable opportunities in Sudbury. The museum is not a major contribution, but it is significant, and I expect the member will be there, along with the member for Sudbury East, when it is opened some time in July. It is a fairly significant economic contribution from this government to enable that facility to move ahead. I think it could be of a genuine economic plus, not in terms of the total number of jobs obviously, but in terms of the numbers of visitors, their stay and the return to the economy of the Sudbury basin generally.

I have never professed to have all the answers relevant not just to the Sudbury basin but to other communities. Some parts of our province have been, as the member for Lake Nipigon (Mr. Stokes) has raised with me, dependent on a single industry, usually in the resource field. As a government, we are constantly looking for ways and means to improve these situations and find alternatives. I can assure the honourable member that if something constructive and viable emerges, even from ideas of his own, this government is prepared to take a look at it.

Mr. Laughren: It is interesting to hear the Premier say this. He is right in one sense, in that the regional municipality of Sudbury has put a great deal of work into developing its long-term strategy to solve some of the problems in that community.

Is the Premier aware of a couple of documents? One is a report, entitled A Challenge to Sudbury, which my colleague the member for Sudbury East and I prepared over a year and a half ago. The other is a major document by the regional municipality of Sudbury, called Towards Economic Diversification.

The suggestions include such things as a new smelter, a precious metals refinery, agricultural initiatives, public housing, a speedup of the local bypass, a fertilizer plant, energy conservation, and I could go on and on. They were included in both documents, A Challenge to Sudbury and the presentation of the regional municipality of Sudbury.

These are all very positive, wealth-creating kinds of projects that would help solve the problem in the long run. Can the Premier tell me why this government, despite having this information for some time now, has not taken action on these suggestions?

What we are asking the Premier is what more we can do? We have put the positive alternatives and the regional municipality of Sudbury has put some very positive alternatives to the government. They have put an enormous amount of work into developing a long-term strategy for Sudbury. What is lacking is leadership on the part of this government. When can we expect some action?

Hon. Mr. Davis: I will try not to give an answer as lengthy as was the question.

Mr. Conway: The Premier set a high standard in his first response.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Davis: I said I will try. I did not say I would. I keep trying. The member for Renfrew North --

Mr. Conway: The first answer was about as long as it was possible to be.

Mr. Speaker: Order. Never mind the interjections, please, and get back to the question.

Hon. Mr. Davis: The very concise, always precise member for Renfrew North in terms of his contributions did not provoke me, but he stimulated me into making some observations.

In replying to the honourable member, I go back a little in history, too, and sometimes memories are short. It was a very major decision by this government to build a major government facility in Sudbury that not only created employment at the time but has also provided a certain stability with that number of jobs in the public service in that community.

I can recall not only a prior commitment but an ongoing commitment to Laurentian University. The member may not feel this is relevant; we happen to think it is. The government has demonstrated its enthusiasm for that institution. The member may not share that enthusiasm, but we do feel it. I think it is fair to state that, and not just as it relates to the museum itself. There are also certain road programs in the process of being expedited. I acknowledge that certain people on unemployment insurance are part of the short-term program.

With regard to a new smelter, one of the suggestions of the regional municipality, I cannot honestly say that is something the government could or should undertake, but I am quite prepared to look at anything that would involve this government in any sort of practical solutions to the longer-term prospects of Sudbury.

I am not quarrelling with the idea of a new smelter except to say, with the greatest of respect, that if there is to be a new smelter, it should be an initiative of somebody in the smelting industry. I would refer the member to the resource machinery business that is being located in Sudbury. There may be more things. We think we have through our efforts made a major contribution towards helping solve this problem.

Mr. Martel: Mr. Speaker, the government has known about this since 1978, when the first layoffs were announced at Inco and Falconbridge Nickel Mines and we had a select committee, none of whose recommendations was accepted by this government. Could the Premier at least indicate that if there is going to be job creation, it will deal with a specific age group?

The average age of those coming off unemployment insurance benefits is 28 years, most of them family men who have no hope of finding alternative employment. Why has the province not responded to such overtures as the suggestion and the application by Valley East for 150 jobs to diversify on a permanent basis the agricultural base there?

Forgetting that for a moment, if he cannot give any answers to the specifics, would the Premier at least be prepared to meet in the very near future with the local members and the regional municipality of Sudbury to discuss the documents my colleague has presented, one of them emanating from the regional municipality, in order to determine if anything is possible in terms of short-term jobs or the long-term diversification of the Sudbury basin?

Hon. Mr. Davis: Mr. Speaker, there were maybe three or four questions there. The first was whether I would be prepared to meet with the head of the regional municipality. The answer to that is obvious; I meet with the very distinguished member for Sudbury (Mr. Gordon) with some regularity. He brings the concerns of that community --

Mr. Conway: I bet he does.

Hon. Mr. Davis: -- with great regularity and expresses them very well.

There was reference made to the committee report related to the industry in what year?

Mr. Martel: In 1978.

Hon. Mr. Davis: In 1978-79. That is right. In my recollection, one of the prime recommendations in that report, and I may be referring to the wrong report but I do not think so, was some form of federal and provincial subsidy with respect to stockpiling. Am I correct in that?

Mr. Martel: That was one among about 13 or 14.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Davis: That was one of the most expensive and major recommendations in the report.

Mr. Martel: That was one.

Hon. Mr. Davis: I am just giving my judgement of that with hindsight.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Davis: We all have it. I say with the greatest of respect that if we had accepted that report and invested millions of dollars of taxpayers' money into stockpiling, it would not have solved the problems of the nickel industry in Canada. In my humble opinion, for what it is worth, it probably would have made the market conditions for Inco and Falconbridge more difficult than those they are experiencing today. It just shows that while members opposite pressed us to do it and we said no, maybe our judgement was correct.

2:40 p.m.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY LEGISLATION

Mr. Wildman: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Labour related to the safety of maintenance workers and drivers in the Toronto Transit Commission subway.

Is the minister aware that there have been seven incidents involving the power lockout procedure accepted by his ministry since December 28, 1983, including such problems as faulty relay contacts and faulty ground straps? Does this not now seem to show the minister that the lockout procedure his ministry accepted as being fail-safe last October is an accident waiting to happen? Is he prepared to require the TTC to institute a procedure to lock out the power at track level when maintenance workers are there and maintenance work is being carried out?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: Mr. Speaker, I am aware that there have been some problems. I am also aware that my officials are working with the TTC people to rectify those problems.

Mr. Wildman: These seven incidents seem to substantiate the concerns raised by Local 2 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees at the December 21, 1983, meeting with the ministry officials. If that is the case, why can the minister not agree to have his officials who are working with the TTC instruct the commission to shut off the power at the substations at either end of the work location? After all, there are no subway cars using the tracks between 2:30 and 5:30 a.m., when the maintenance work is carried on. Why can he not agree to do that?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: The honourable member wrote to me on March 2, 1984, raising a number of allegations relevant to the TTC. In all cases, these were followed up accordingly and appropriate action was taken where necessary.

Mr. Wildman: Is the minister not aware that one of the procedures used to protect workers and give them secondary backup is a ground strap procedure where the ground strap blows a fuse, if the power comes back on, to warn the workers? The workers also use this for testing the track. The problem is that if the fuse blows, that means there is no secondary protection for the workers for the rest of that shift. This has happened a number of times.

If he takes the recommendations of the Achong inquest jury seriously, is he prepared now to look again at that ground strap procedure and to institute the second recommendation of that inquest with regard to the training of workers?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I responded at considerable length to the member's letter of March 2, but his request is reasonable. I will review the circumstances again. I cannot give any commitment that I will change my position, but I will certainly be happy to review the circumstances.

PORNOGRAPHIC TELEPHONE CALLS

Mr. McGuigan: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation and Communications concerning pornographic telephone calls.

I am sure all members of the House have received copies of the resolution from Thunder Bay which has been endorsed by their local municipalities. I will just read a short excerpt from it:

"A telephone number is being circulated among youths in the city, primarily in the schools, which, when dialled, initiates a 60-second pornographic message. This number, which is advertised in pornographic magazines as being toll-free, has appeared on the telephone bills of many parents whose children have been calling this number, unaware that it would appear on the household telephone bill. Understandably, upon informing themselves of the content of the call, the parents have come forth in opposition and have been investigating means by which this line can be monitored or discontinued."

I know the minister has made some inquiries and initiated some action, but besides those things, I wonder whether he could take some direct action by contacting the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations (Mr. Elgie) and urging him to look at the possibility of including advertised phone calls in his announced changes to the censorship regulations.

I realize we would not touch private telephone calls, but I question whether this really is a private telephone call when it is advertised as containing some sort of entertaining message. Would he also ask the minister whether these people could be prosecuted for false advertising?

Hon. Mr. Snow: Mr. Speaker, not being an expert on these types of phone calls and not having listened to this one, I cannot comment as to whether it is false advertising.

In all seriousness, I have received the correspondence from the city of Thunder Bay. We have been looking into it. We have passed our concerns on to the Minister of Communications in the federal government and to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission as well as to the Ontario Telephone Service Commission, as it is involved to some degree in the regulating of the smaller telephone companies in the province.

It is a difficult thing. It is something I have just heard about within the last month. I am not sure whether it is totally new or whether it is confined just to Thunder Bay. It is the only place I have heard of this taking place.

One suggestion was that if there were some way all these calls could be mechanically reversed, then perhaps the person who was advertising the calls would soon take the ad out of the paper.

Mr. McGuigan: I appreciate what the minister has said, but I am sorry he has not said he would confer with his fellow minister.

Interjection.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Mr. McGuigan: Would the minister also confer with the Attorney General (Mr. McMurtry) to see whether the instigators of this ad, and possibly the magazines themselves, are breaching the obscenity section of the Criminal Code and urge him to do whatever he can to prosecute them?

Hon. Mr. Snow: Yes, I will confer with my colleague the Attorney General. I am pleased to see him back with us today.

DE HAVILLAND AIRCRAFT OF CANADA

Mr. Stokes: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Industry and Trade. Can the minister, who feels neglected lately, confirm whether he has heard rumblings from his federal counterparts that they are prepared to dump Canadair and Hawker Siddeley? And can he tell us whether he agrees with people such as Michael Wilson that they are just not viable and not worth supporting?

Hon. F. S. Miller: Mr. Speaker, I am glad the honourable member looked at me today when he posed the question, because I have been a bit embarrassed about somebody imitating me in the back row.

Mr. Van Horne: Two for one.

Hon. F. S. Miller: That is true.

Mr. J. A. Reed: Nobody else looks like you, Frank.

Hon. F. S. Miller: He is trying.

I would point out that the only contacts I have had as Minister of Industry and Trade really have not related to Canadair; they have related to de Havilland, which I think the member meant to mention, not Hawker Siddeley.

It has been my position as the Minister of Industry and Trade that Ontario is indeed very anxious to see the continued operation of de Havilland in Ontario. It is a company with high world-class technology, one we cannot afford to see close or move elsewhere.

Mr. Stokes: Can the minister confirm that, if there should ever be a new government over in Ottawa that might feel disposed to divest itself of those, he, on behalf of this technology and on behalf of the thousands of people it employs in this city, will buy up those interests, not only to protect the jobs but also to protect the contract his colleague the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Bernier) has to purchase the first two Dash-8s off the line?

2:50 p.m.

Hon. F. S. Miller: I think any speculation by me as to what I would do when the government changes would be premature. I would suggest, though, that the surest way to ensure the continued operation of the factory at de Havilland -- which is my major interest, not the ownership of the factory -- would be to help that company meet international competition for sales.

International competition for sales is not based upon price or quality half as much as it is based on concessional financing. That is where I believe the government of Canada can do a great deal to help de Havilland sell its world-class aircraft against the competition, such as that from the Brazilians, who are offering low interest rates.

LICENSING OF VEGETABLE GROWERS

Mr. Sheppard: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Agriculture and Food. It is my understanding that the Eastern Ontario Vegetable Growers' Co-operative has applied for a licence to process vegetables under the Farm Products Marketing Act.

Further, under the new processing-vegetable financial protection program, the Eastern Ontario Vegetable Growers' Co-operative must satisfy the licensing authority with respect to financial responsibility. As growers are ready to plant and do not wish to interact with a processor who is yet unlicensed, could the minister please throw some light on the status of this application for a licence?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Mr. Speaker, the financial protection plan to which the honourable member has referred in his question was developed over a great many months in co-operation between the vegetable processors and the Ontario Vegetable Growers' Marketing Board. The firm in question, the co-operative, is unique in the province; it is quite unlike any other processing operation we have. It has therefore necessitated several meetings involving representatives of the co-operative and the staff of the ministry who are responsible for financial reviews of applicant firms.

At this point, I am not in a position to divulge any numbers or the basic facts about the company, because that is confidential information and I could not do that without its explicit co-operation and acquiescence. This matter will be taken up in the very near future by the Farm Products Marketing Board, which is the body that issues the licence.

Mr. Sheppard: Since there are 118 growers involved and more than 7,000 acres, could the minister set up a meeting in the very near future? This is very important to the growers in Northumberland county.

Mr. Speaker: Will the minister agree?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I am well aware of the importance of the co-operative. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, going back over the last 15 or 20 years, our government has assisted the co-operative on many occasions. The fund has been established to protect growers, not to reduce their interests or impinge on their interests in any way. Certainly, if it is necessary, I will be pleased, as always, to hold such a meeting.

Mr. O'Neil: Mr. Speaker, as the member for Northumberland (Mr. Sheppard) has raised this question, I hoped the minister would be able to give these people a meeting, and maybe he still will.

Is it true that someone from his ministry, in speaking to the people in Ottawa, has said he would like to see this co-op out of business? Is it also true the minister has set up some companies in direct opposition to this company, knowing there has been an overabundance of the crop over the last couple of years?

Is the minister prepared to meet with these people? Did somebody in his ministry tell the federal people the ministry would like to see this particular co-op, which has many Conservative, Liberal and New Democratic Party members in it, out of business? Is he trying to drive it out of business? Will he meet with them?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Mr. Speaker, that has to be absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Mr. O'Neil: Why is the member asking the minister then?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I do not know. Why is the honourable member asking such a ridiculous question?

When I look over the years at the amount of assistance we have given to that company, going back to the early 1970s -- it has not been only the provincial government; the federal government has assisted as well -- I see that since 1972 we have given that company seven individual grants or loans to assist it in being established and in expanding.

Nothing could be further from the truth. We have no interest in seeing that company go under. We have every interest in seeing it carry on. However, like every other company in this province which has to be licensed to process vegetables, it must conform to the financial criteria that have been developed by the Ontario Vegetable Growers' Marketing Board, representing all producers in the province.

TOMATO CONTAINERS

Mr. Mancini: Mr. Speaker, I would like to put a question to the Minister of Agriculture and Food. I would like the Premier (Mr. Davis) to take special note of the question, because we may need the services of his office in resolving the problem.

Mr. Speaker: Now for the question.

Mr. Mancini: The Minister of Agriculture and Food may recall that I wrote to him on August 8, 1983, concerning the problem that Ontario tomato growers were having with the distribution of field tomatoes in Quebec. Government officials in Quebec were not allowing the distribution of Ontario field tomatoes because they were in four-litre baskets and not in four-quart baskets. I received a response from the Minister of Agriculture and Food to the effect that this problem would be resolved before the next growing season.

I want to ask the minister exactly what he has done in the eight months that have transpired. Why do we not have a commitment from him yet that the government of Quebec will allow the distribution of Ontario field tomatoes throughout that province in four-litre baskets?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: Mr. Speaker, obviously I cannot make commitments on behalf of the government of Quebec. The government of Quebec must make commitments on behalf of the government of Quebec.

We have made repeated representations to the minister and staff of the ministry in Quebec City, as have officials in Ottawa and officials of the Canadian Horticultural Council. To date, the government of Quebec has not given a definite answer as to what its intentions are. We have advised the growers' association in this province that as a contingency we should be prepared, if necessary, to ship into Quebec in imperial measures.

I am advised there will be no problem in obtaining the necessary containers inasmuch as we ship to the United States in similar containers. I find it rather strange that we have not been able to get a definite answer, but that is where the matter stands at this time.

Mr. Mancini: I am sure that in normal trade relations there is a distribution of goods and services that we allow to flow back and forth across the Ontario-Quebec border without any problems. That is exactly the way it should be.

Can the minister tell the House whether he has spoken directly with the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for Quebec? What problems did that minister explain to the Ontario Minister of Agriculture and Food as to the difficulties they face with the distribution of Ontario tomatoes in four-litre baskets? Did he point out to the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in Quebec that it has been accepting Ontario fruit in litres and that has not been a problem?

Hon. Mr. Timbrell: I can assure the honourable member that we have made the minister, Mr. Garon, and his officials well aware of all the facts. I spoke to him a number of months ago. I have been in touch by a telex as recently as last week asking again for clarification and an answer to the repeated approaches we have made at all levels. It is really beyond me why they have not been able to arrive at a determination of their policy, but the fact is they have not.

3 p.m.

FUNDING OF THE ARTS

Mr. Allen: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Citizenship and Culture. On April 5, the minister announced the 1984-85 operating grants for nine cultural agencies. She promised an announcement about additional funding for the big five performing arts organizations after the publication of the Macaulay report. Almost six weeks have passed. There has not been a word on the matter and there was nothing in last week's statement.

Has the minister anything to report? When is she going to make an announcement on that subject? When it comes, will it be of the order of the $5.4 million over two years urged by Macaulay to prevent, in his words, further damage to major performing arts organizations?

Hon. Ms. Fish: Mr. Speaker, I do intend to respond in full to the Macaulay report; I hope it will be in the fairly near future. I am pursuing the very careful review that I indicated I had in hand, and I will be addressing all of the recommendations.

Mr. Allen: Do I understand the minister to be saying not only that she will be making a response to this particular question but that she will be making a much larger response, as she promised us on April 8, the day on which the report was released, on the major perspectives of the report as well as the major proposals it encompasses, which is a matter, of course, on which hinges a lot of the future planning of all arts organizations in this province? Can she give us a date for that announcement?

Hon. Ms. Fish: It is my intention to so respond as I indicated, and I will do so at the earliest opportunity.

Mr. O'Neil: Mr. Speaker, when we discussed the Macaulay commission in the Legislature, we asked some questions about additional funding for many of the arts groups. Does the minister have any further comments at this time on that funding?

Hon. Ms. Fish: Mr. Speaker, I have no further comment in addition to the answers I provided to the initial questioner.

STUDENT ASSISTANCE

Mr. Conway: Mr. Speaker, I have a new question for the Provincial Secretary for Social Development, who I understand is also the effective parliamentary secretary for that department, the youth programs as well; his own parliamentary secretary. My question concerns the Ontario student venture capital program, about which the minister made such a glowing report in this House about three weeks ago.

Can the minister confirm that there is a blacklist, as was indicated by one of his officials, which apparently applies to those student venture capitalists who have failed in their endeavours? Can the minister confirm that the blacklist exists? If so, how long has it been in place? How many people are currently on the blacklist? How well advertised is the fact that if one fails as a student venture capitalist, he or she will not be allowed to reapply to the Ontario student assistance program?

Hon. Mr. Dean: Mr. Speaker, I think there needs to be one word of clarification about what is involved here. Because the ministry and our staff try to be accountable for tax money, we feel obligated to do everything we can to secure the repayment of any loans that are in default; but our rates of default, I might say, compare very favourably with those in the general commercial area.

Naturally, a list is kept of whether or not people have repaid their money. If by October repayment of the loan that has been guaranteed by the province has not been made, then the student who has undertaken the loan and undertaken to repay it is notified that interest will be charged from then on, and we will endeavour to collect it.

We obviously ask the student to make any kind of arrangement he or she can to repay the loan. If the student does make an arrangement with the secretariat to repay the loan over whatever agreeable term can be arranged to mutual satisfaction, then that is regarded as a satisfactory repayment mechanism and there is no further problem with the student obtaining the funding under OSAP.

Mr. Conway: I sincerely appreciate the minister's clarification. Do I take from his answer there are other penalties outside of being blacklisted for further OSAP loans or grants?

More specifically, what penalties, if any, attach to those Ontario student venture capitalists who have failed in their enterprises, unfortunately, but who do not in the future plan, as they did not in the past, to participate in the Ontario student assistance program? What penalties, if any, apply to those people who have failed in this program but who have no need or requirement to apply for any part of the Ontario student assistance plan? Are there any penalties attached to those people?

Hon. Mr. Dean: There are no penalties to any participant except the obligation to repay the loan.

ACTIVITIES OF POLICE

Mr. Renwick: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General. Three weeks ago today, William Franklin Baker was discharged in the court in Hamilton with respect to matters related to his confession in the allegations that were made against him at that time. Will the minister now table in the House the report of the Ontario Provincial Police investigation into the circumstances surrounding his arrest, detention, interrogation and subsequent discharge in the court?

Hon. G. W. Taylor: Mr. Speaker, I have no such report at this time, but since the honourable member has asked me, I will ask for a report of the incident so I can provide the member with that information if it is possible.

Mr. Renwick: Is the Solicitor General saying this House will never see the report of the OPP or the report of the investigation he has jointly made with his colleague the Attorney General (Mr. McMurtry) into this matter?

Hon. G. W. Taylor: I have not said that. I said I have not yet seen a report and if one is available, and I am at liberty to present it to the House and table it, I will provide him with that information and so table it.

TRUANCY

Mr. Bradley: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education and it relates to the provincial government's lack of policy regarding truancy. Perhaps the minister can bring me up to date on where the provincial government now stands in this regard.

Attendance counsellors in Ontario school boards say they are being kept in the dark about the province's plans for dealing with truant children. Malcolm Powell, chairman of the social action committee of the Ontario Association for Counselling and Attendance Services said, "Ontario attendance counsellors are 'angry and frustrated that we do not have a place in the appropriate legislation to control compulsory school attendance.'"

In view of the fact that there appears to be a lot of confusion out there as to just what the provincial government is going to do, what is the minister doing in regard to truancy in this province, particularly in the light of the court decision which was rendered by a Toronto judge? I think it was in Toronto. The minister could help me with that.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: Mr. Speaker, in response to the final part of that question, the case was introduced to the courts before the introduction of the Young Offenders Act and it is my understanding that in that circumstance, in all legal matters the original act would apply. That is what the judge decided in that case, which is completely understandable and I believe may be a part of the decision if there are other cases pending which had come into being before April 1, 1984.

There has been a memorandum issued by the deputy minister to all the attendance counsellors and all the boards in the province giving the boards our concern about the policy modifications we perceive to be most appropriate and suggesting strongly that there not be any charges laid against students pending the development of the process to deal with truancy. The policy is in place with respect to the general framework. It is the process to deal with it appropriately which has to be finalized.

It is my understanding that a significant number of attendance counsellors in the province have been consulted very fully on the matter of the development of the new policy and will obviously continue to be so.

Mr. Bradley: Some of the boards of education are apparently ignoring the minister's edict, from what I read in newspaper reports which I presume must have some accuracy in them, but that is not my supplementary question.

Why has it taken the minister so long to develop this policy, to place something on the books, when she has known the Young Offenders Act was going to be proclaimed sometime? I believe it was passed in 1982. What has taken the minister so long to put something in place to govern the idea of truancy and help boards of education to prosecute those who are in violation of the law?

3:10 p.m.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: One of the characteristics of the activities in the Ministry of Education is very broad and deep consultation, and consultation has been going on for a very long time about this. The policy has been framed appropriately. As I said to the honourable member, it is the process for dealing with the infractions of the policy that is to be finalized at this point. I believe that discussion is almost finalized at this point.

Mr. McClellan: Mr. Speaker, I really do not feel the minister has answered the question. She had a report in 1982 that set out the three proposed policy options for the ministry to deal with this issue. Why has it taken 1982, 1983 and 1984? The Young Offenders Act is now proclaimed and she still does not have her policy options sorted out and a new policy in place.

What on earth has taken her so long when she has had so much advance notice and has done so much advance planning? Why is she still not ready for the Young Offenders Act?

Hon. Miss Stephenson: Mr. Speaker, as I said, the consultation process is extremely lengthy. The three options were considered fully by all those concerned with education in Ontario. I remind the honourable member that it is difficult to achieve any degree of satisfactory consultation for approximately three months out of every year -- June, July and August.

Mr. McClellan: The minister has had three full years.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: That is not my fault. The Ministry of Education is still in place, but the school system does not function effectively during that period.

Mr. Conway: Teachers take note.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: It is not just teachers, not by a long shot. That consultation process was absolutely required. We do not establish policy in the Ministry of Education without full consultation with all the groups.

Mr. McClellan: The minister has had lots of time for consultation. She could have consulted everybody under the sun.

Hon. Miss Stephenson: There was controversy in the consultation and that had to be resolved as well. The policy framework is in place and the process will be finalized. There was a great deal of controversy.

DAY CARE

Ms. Bryden: Mr. Speaker, I have a question of the Minister responsible for Women's Issues. This spring, an ad hoc committee of four women's organizations met with the provincial Treasurer (Mr. Grossman). The groups that formed the committee were four very important organizations representing large numbers of women in Ontario. They were the Ontario Committee on the Status of Women, the Canadian Association of Women Executives, the Ontario Status of Women Council and the Young Women's Christian Association of Metropolitan Toronto.

Has the minister heard about the proposal the ad hoc committee presented to the provincial Treasurer to establish a fund for women's programs similar in its working to the provincial Board of Industrial Leadership and Development program, which would direct job-creating funds into badly needed facilities for new child care spaces, shelters for battered women and homes for the homeless, many of whom are women? If so, has the minister undertaken a study of the proposal?

Hon. Mr. Welch: Mr. Speaker, I attended the meeting at which the representatives made that suggestion, among others. The Treasurer and I indicated we would take the proposal under consideration, along with other matters they raised. I suppose the short answer to the honourable member's question is yes, I am aware of that meeting. Second, I was at the meeting and the proposals are being reviewed.

Ms. Bryden: I hope the minister's answer means he is actually undertaking some studies of the program that could be built up.

Mr. Speaker: Question, please.

Ms. Bryden: The ad hoc committee also urged the encouragement of work-site child care. Is his directorate making any studies of the need for child care facilities in the Queen's Park complex and other large government complexes? Is he considering the request put forward by the Ontario Public Service Employees Union in its last collective bargaining session for the development of such facilities in government work places?

Hon. Mr. Welch: As the member knows, since the assignment of these responsibilities I have had an opportunity to meet with many organizations. The group to which the member makes reference did include that proposal.

Mr. Martel: The minister is a busy little consultant.

Hon. Mr. Welch: Pardon?

Mr. Speaker: Never mind the interjection, please.

Hon. Mr. Welch: I would draw attention to the fact that there are some work-place child care facilities. They are not in the Queen's Park complex but they are in some other public buildings. As the member also makes reference, this is on the table now as part of the negotiations.

I think the member can take some comfort from the fact that in the speech from the throne there was a section dealing with a review of the whole area of child care. Certainly, there was the question of work-place child care being part of that review.

RECYCLING

Mr. Elston: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of the Environment. He will recall that last week a report entitled Breaking the Barriers was released by the Canadian Environmental Law Association and Pollution Probe. It cited a number of examples of where his ministry was falling short in carrying out its responsibilities to encourage recycling and reduction.

Would the minister agree it is about time his ministry followed the lead of Quebec and British Columbia by introducing legislation that would provide tax incentives and low-interest loans to help companies install recycling and reduction systems?

Hon. Mr. Brandt: Mr. Speaker, I would not agree with that. At the moment, as I am sure the honourable member is aware, we have a program through the Ontario Waste Management Corp. which takes into account the types of waste that can be recycled or reused between industries. It is working very well and it is growing. I anticipate it is going to be nothing less than a tremendous success, and I invite the member to join with me in making it a success.

PETITIONS

INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS

Mr. Runciman: Mr. Speaker, I have a petition which reads:

"To the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor and the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, beg leave to appeal to petition the parliament of Ontario as follows:

"As resident electors, many of us send our children to independent schools because we believe parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their child. Most independent school supporters are people of modest means and we ask for your help in reducing the unfair burden of what in effect is double taxation.

"Our school operates in the public interest and we ask for protection for the right of our school to its existence and the remission of taxes taken away by the province of Ontario but not used for the education of our children."

EQUAL PAY FOR WORK OF EQUAL VALUE

Mr. Allen: Mr. Speaker, I have a petition which reads:

"To the Honourable the Lieutenant Governor and the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, beg leave to petition the parliament of Ontario as follows:

"Whereas women in Ontario still earn only 60 per cent of the wages of men; whereas women are still concentrated in a very small number of occupations; and whereas unanimous approval of the concept of equal pay for work of equal value was expressed in the Ontario Legislature in October 1983,

"We petition the Ontario Legislature to amend Bill 141 to include equal pay for work of equal value and to introduce mandatory affirmative action."

MOTION

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon. Mr. Wells moved that Mr. Edighoffer and Mr. Newman exchange positions in the order of precedence for private members' business.

Motion agreed to.

Mr. Speaker: Having reached this point, I am going to adjourn the House until four o'clock this afternoon, at which time the budget will be received.

Mr. McClellan: Recess the House, not adjourn it.

Mr. Speaker: Order. I said it properly the first time, with all respect.

The House recessed at 3:19 p.m.

4:05 p.m.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET RESOLUTION

Hon. Mr. Grossman moved, seconded by Hon. Mr. Davis, that this House approves in general the budgetary policy of the government.

Mr. Speaker: If we may have the indulgence of the House for a few minutes, we will deliver the budgets to the individual members and then we will proceed.

Have all honourable members received their copies of the budget? If so, the Treasurer may proceed.

BUDGET STATEMENT

Hon. Mr. Grossman: Mr. Speaker, before commencing these remarks, I believe it would be only appropriate to honour a very important tradition at this time, and that is to acknowledge the significant contributions to the strong economic environment we inherit today made by those who preceded the current Treasurer in these difficult responsibilities.

We have with us, of course happily on the Treasury benches, my immediate predecessor, who did so much over the past five years to create a circumstance where Ontario has very strong and growing economic circumstances, the strongest in Canada.

He points out he offered me his jacket, but I declined.

Hon. Mr. Ashe: Thank goodness.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: I should also like to recognize for honourable members two former Treasurers who are, as usual, in the gallery with us on this occasion. They are Mr. John White and Mr. James Allan. They did so much in other times to create the kind of stable and secure environment we have all come to know, honour and appreciate that I think it is appropriate they join us on this occasion.

If members will bear with me, I should like also to acknowledge what to me is a very important presence today, and that is the presence of a former Minister of Revenue, my immediate predecessor in the great riding of St. Andrew-St. Patrick, my father, who is with my mother.

Mr. Nixon: Eddie Goodman is up there.

Hon. Mr. Davis: I did not think you would notice.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: Of whatever significance it is, I should say to the member for Brant-Oxford-Norfolk that Mr. Goodman is occupying the seat that had originally been allocated to Senator Kelly, who could not be here today. It may not be the only seat of Mr. Kelly's that he aspires to, but I cannot speak in detail about that.

In any case, to complete the illustrious row up there, I should like to acknowledge what to me is a very important presence. First, of course, is Kathleen Davis, the wife of the Premier (Mr. Davis). At the risk of tiring my colleagues, whose applause I will need later on in the afternoon, I should like to acknowledge the presence of my wife and the heart of the Forest Hill atom all-star hockey team, which won the Metropolitan Toronto Clancy Tournament this year, and my three children, Melissa, Jamie and Robbie,

Hon. Mr. Davis: I am glad to hear there is an athlete in the family.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: They inherited it from their father.

Before submitting to this Legislature the budget initiatives I am proposing, I want to outline briefly the basic choices I have made and how I have approached this assignment.

To encourage constructive discussion across the province, I presented last autumn a prebudget statement that assessed our economic outlook and outlined the basic choices facing Ontario. The discussions arising from that document have been valuable, and I am grateful for the advice that has been tendered. It speaks well of the open consultative process that will remain a hallmark of budget presentation in our province.

In designing the specific measures in this budget, I have been guided by what I have heard and by what I believe to be a broad consensus on our economic circumstances and on the aspirations of our people. The Ontario economy has recovered from recession and will grow broadly in 1984. Rising exports and expanding domestic activity should provide a 4.7 per cent increase in real economic growth and an 8.9 per cent increase in personal income.

However, if we are to prosper in a changing world economy, sustained expansion demands not only steady resolve in the fight against inflation, but a shared commitment to economic transformation. We cannot return to business as usual. We are in the midst of a profound economic change, and adjusting to this transformation -- indeed, assisting it -- is a social and economic imperative.

This year employment is expected to increase by 125,000 jobs in Ontario. This reinforces our confidence in our economy, but it must not disguise the fact that unemployment, particularly among our young people, is too high and will require energetic and innovative action by government.

This budget will focus on our ability to invent, to create, to be entrepreneurial. In this sense, our people, and especially our entrepreneurs, are clearly our greatest economic asset.

Our public institutions and our communities themselves have a powerful contribution to make in meeting new economic challenges and equipping our people to enjoy rewarding lives. Local governments, universities and colleges, labour and our active volunteer organizations must all be full partners in the economic and social transformation of the province. This budget will encourage that partnership.

The government has a clear mandate to invest vigorously in supporting and shaping change in Ontario. But in doing so, we must live within our means. Deficits must come down. For the year just ended, I am pleased to report we have been able to reduce the projected deficit of $2,695,000,000 to $2,350,000,000. However, this budget must go further. By maintaining our commitment to productivity and efficiency, we will be able to make major new investments in our economic transformation.

This budget rejects stopgap measures; rather, it makes strategic investments in the long-term interests of our people. Consistent with these principles, the Board of Industrial Leadership and Development will guide the implementation of the economic strategy in this budget. This year BILD will be provided with a $500-million economic transformation fund to equip our citizens and our industries to meet the demands of a changing economy.

Bearing in mind the need to be creative and the advice we have received, this budget will significantly expand and reform our support for youth employment; improve job access for women; assist older workers in acquiring new skills; strengthen the role and resources of our learning institutions; quicken the modernization of our industries; stimulate innovation and small business; enhance our resource industries; help break the cycle of welfare dependency; offer more independence to the elderly and the disabled; extend our commitment to productivity and restraint, and reduce the deficit.

During this time of economic transformation, the products of inventive and energetic minds will shape our horizons and determine our competitive success.

Industry, in particular, has an obligation to increase its efforts to train our people. Individual businesses must generate more opportunities not only by participating in government programs, but by sponsoring initiatives of their own.

Accordingly, private sector employers who benefit from government employment subsidy programs will be expected to provide meaningful experience and training.

Today I am announcing the establishment of two major funds through which this government will invest $600 million over the next three years in youth training and employment and in retraining for experienced workers.

We will create a $150-million Ontario skills fund to build on the experience of older workers by investing in retraining and upgrading.

We will also create a $450-million Ontario youth opportunities fund to provide major new opportunities for young people to acquire the training and expertise they need to prepare for the future. We have rejected temporary make-work schemes because they do not prepare our young people adequately for the future. Only a strong and growing economy will ensure a job for every young woman and man.

4:20 p.m.

These initiatives, together with our existing programs and activities, are strategic, long-term investments in our young people. They will complement the activities of the federal government and our educational system and will mobilize the efforts of the voluntary sector, municipalities and businesses. Together we will provide an opportunity for every young person in this province.

Last year our colleges and universities provided opportunities for training and higher learning to more than 330,000 people in Ontario.

In addition, we have in place a range of programs that address specific employment problems of young people. These programs will now be co-ordinated and consolidated through Ontario youth opportunities. Young people and employers will gain access to this program through a province-wide telephone network.

Ontario youth opportunities will place new emphasis on training and experience for the hard-to-employ -- those young women and young men who suffer frequent and extended periods of unemployment -- and young workers who have lost their jobs during a time of economic change.

I now wish to announce a 10-point strategy to increase youth training and youth employment in Ontario.

I. We will create a nonprofit corporation called Ontario Youth Trust, which will increase training and job experience for hard-to-employ young people. It will offer basic work skills and provide placements in local firms. The government will expect business leaders from all regions of the province to serve as active members of the board of directors. Local firms will be asked by the board to provide funding, training positions and jobs. They will also be asked to contribute staff to co-ordinate the program and provide counselling and job search skills. These counsellors will work closely with participants during their early weeks of employment to help improve their job performance and build their self-confidence.

2. Under a new program, Ontario youth corps, we will put our young people to work in important community services such as home care for the elderly and assistance to the handicapped and disabled. This will give them experience, work and a sense of self-worth. We will provide wage subsidies and seed money to support initiatives developed by service organizations and by municipalities.

3. A new residential centres program will be created. It will offer basic and intensive education, vocational training and counselling for disadvantaged youth, aged 15 to 19, who lack literacy and other basic skills needed to get a job. These centres will be operated by voluntary groups, businesses, school boards and municipalities. Trainees will receive room and board and a weekly allowance.

4. Through our community colleges, we will create a new Ontario youth start program, combining instruction and basic work skills, on-the-job training and counselling for young people who left school early and lack experience, motivation and self-confidence. This program will operate away from the traditional educational environment and will use surplus space in public buildings, commercial facilities and, where appropriate, vacant schools.

5. A new program, Ontario youth tourism, will combine intensive training at a community college with on-the-job experience. Employers in designated tourist areas will be asked to create 2,500 positions and provide young workers with a training allowance of $100 per week.

6. We are committing $80 million to a new Ontario youth work opportunities subsidy program. The object of this program will be to support those job opportunities that offer real training or important job experience. A variable rate of subsidy will be introduced so we can target support to young people whose employment problems are most severe. The highest rate will be offered to young people who have less than a high school education and who have been without work for at least three months.

7. To encourage young people to start new businesses and become entrepreneurs, a new year-round venture capital incentive will be established for out-of-school youth. It will provide interest-free loans of up to $5,000.

8. We will increase from 33 to 100 the number of youth employment counselling centres in Ontario and make this a permanent program. They will play an important role in directing young people to programs that best meet their needs and will be a major link between young people and opportunities for training and jobs. The new centres will be focused on smaller communities.

9. For many young people the difference between staying in school and dropping out is the extra income they earn through a part-time job. To keep these young people in school we will have for the first time a part-time employment program. A $1.25 per hour wage subsidy will be paid to employers who provide part-time jobs for students identified by our counselling centres to be in serious financial need.

10. We will expand the Ontario career action program and strengthen its value by focusing on training to develop more marketable skills. This year the government will increase this program's allocation from $19 million to $24 million. It will provide a combination of training and employment for more than 16,000 young people.

To oversee the co-ordination and design of provincial youth training and employment programs, we are appointing a youth commissioner reporting to the chairman of the Board of Industrial Leadership and Development. The youth commissioner will be responsible for strengthening training and practical experience in all youth programs and for placing a new emphasis on the needs of those young people whose employment problems are most severe. The commissioner will have a mandate to work aggressively with individual firms and volunteer groups to involve them in developing or participating in new training and job programs.

Many of the new initiatives I am announcing today have never been attempted in this country. They break new ground. They will provide an opportunity for every young person to prepare for a life of useful work and independence.

We must also provide opportunities for our experienced workers to retrain and to upgrade their skills. The federal government already sponsors on-the-job training in industry and skill training in Ontario's community colleges. The province has a network of colleges and universities teaching skills and developing the techniques and knowledge necessary to adapt successfully to a changing economy. We also have a wide range of direct training initiatives.

With the new Ontario skills fund we will strengthen our commitment to retraining and skills upgrading. We will invest $150 million over the next three years to help experienced workers adapt to economic transition and to provide skills and technical upgrading opportunities for women who want to enter or return to the labour force.

4:30 p.m.

First, we will create for the first time in Canada an incentive to establish training trust funds, which will encourage workers and firms to undertake continuous training efforts. Employers and employees will make equal hourly contributions to the trust fund. In the first year the province will match the hourly contribution of employees up to a maximum of $100,000 for each firm. These funds will provide retraining and job security. They will also encourage more businesses to establish training programs and develop co-operative arrangements among business, labour and government.

Second, we will provide $40 million this year for special training initiatives targeted to help women, older workers and others adversely affected by technological change. These programs will help them to complete high school education, take technical courses, upgrade skills, train in new technology and participate in on-the-job training. In particular, we are tripling our funding for the technical upgrading program from $4 million to $12 million. This will provide new opportunities for women who want to improve their qualifications so they can enter the work force or benefit from more advanced technical training.

Third, we will create a new incentive to help older workers who have been laid off. Employers who hire and train laid-off workers over age 45 will receive a $2,000 incentive when the employee has been on the job for one year. Older workers who have lost their jobs as a consequence of economic change face a distinct and serious set of problems. This measure will provide special support to help them acquire marketable skills.

Fourth, the government will provide financial assistance to unemployed help centres run by trade unions. During our prebudget consultations, the Ontario Federation of Labour emphasized that these centres provide important counselling, advice and support for laid-off workers. Therefore, we have decided to provide funding to keep these centres open this year.

The initiatives I have outlined today represent a major and strategic investment in the future of our province and in the quality of life of our people. To summarize, we will provide new opportunities for experience and training by:

Co-ordinating all programs through Ontario youth opportunities;

Mobilizing business involvement in youth training and counselling through Ontario Youth Trust;

Providing valuable experience in jobs in the community through Ontario youth corps;

Creating a new residential centres program to train disadvantaged youth;

Giving training and basic work skills to hard-to-employ youth with Ontario youth start;

Providing training and experience for young people through Ontario youth tourism;

Targeting higher wage subsidies to youth who most need jobs through Ontario youth work opportunities;

Offering interest-free loans for out-of-school youth to start new businesses;

Expanding to 100 the number of youth employment counselling centres;

Creating an incentive for part-time jobs for students in financial need;

Expanding the Ontario career action program and promoting training in higher-skill jobs;

Appointing a youth commissioner;

Establishing a training trust fund program;

Expanding all our special training initiatives;

Introducing a new incentive for employers who hire and train older laid-off workers;

Supporting unemployed help centres run by trade unions.

Many of these innovative initiatives are new to Canada. They are an important step towards building co-operation among all sectors of the economy. They present a package we are proud to place before members today.

As we adapt to a very different economic structure, high value will be placed on the entrepreneurial skills of our citizens and their ability to innovate and adopt new technologies.

As pointed out in our policy paper Economic Transformation: Technological Innovation and Diffusion in Ontario, universities can be the basis for growth of innovative firms; they generate scientific leadership and attract many of the best minds in Canada. We must improve the transfer of excellence in the laboratory to success in the marketplace. Consequently, I am announcing today a new initiative to improve the research capacity of our universities and to strengthen their partnership with the private sector.

We hope to generate $90 million in new resources over the next three years to help our universities and Ryerson acquire state of the art equipment and to stimulate research activity most relevant to the innovative demands of our economy. Over this period, the province will commit $30 million to a new university research incentive fund. We are confident that our universities will attract $2 of investment from the private sector to match every dollar drawn from this fund. This program will be structured to meet the unique circumstances of each institution.

Through this and other initiatives, the government will spend more than $42 million on research activities, buildings and equipment purchases for universities this year.

For many firms, immediate opportunities for increased competitiveness are provided not by new inventions, but by the rapid adoption of up-to-date processes. To improve access to advanced technologies, the government's six technology centres have created a new partnership among business, trade unions and government.

Lack of adequate financing, however, can prove a serious stumbling block to putting knowledge to work within our firms. We will reinforce our technology centres program to help ensure that funds are available to assist in modernization and retooling. The Ontario development corporations will work with the centres to assist small and medium-sized companies acquire the high-technology equipment they need. In addition, the Minister of Industry and Trade (Mr. F. S. Miller) will be introducing a new program to assist firms in renting robots and other high-technology equipment.

The adoption of new technologies requires not only awareness and dollars but also advanced management and technical skills. We will create a technology diffusion training program. Through this program, Ontario's technology centres will provide educational grants to managers, engineers and technicians who are key to the technology adoption decisions of small and medium-sized firms.

The ability of our people to participate fully in the economy of the future will depend on access to and familiarity with new technologies.

I believe no child should be denied the opportunity and the right to become familiar with computers and other information technologies. The foundation of today's democracy was put in place by those who had the vision to teach the poor, as well as the rich, to read and write. If equality of opportunity is to remain the hallmark of Ontario, all our children must have fair and adequate access to the computer.

Through initiatives already under way in our schools, children in Ontario will receive a basic grounding in computer literacy.

To build on these foundations, I wish to announce what I believe to be an important new program. Through the Ministry of Citizenship and Culture, our government will provide $4 million to place 4,000 computers in communities across the province. They will be offered through service organizations, libraries and other community institutions, which will provide children with instruction and opportunities to become familiar with computers.

4:40 p.m.

Perhaps nowhere is the impact of industrial transformation more evident than in the automotive sector. To capitalize fully on emerging opportunities, our winning Canadian automotive parts firms must adapt to stay competitive.

To help meet this challenge, we will provide, through the Board of Industrial Leadership and Development, $30 million as our contribution to a new three-year automotive parts investment fund. Working with the industry, we will identify opportunities in such areas as product development, plant modernization and improved management and training practices. As a partner, the government will expect commitments and contributions from firms and workers to ensure long-term competitiveness.

Our ability to respond successfully will depend, in large part, on the vigour and strength of entrepreneurs and small businesses. The job creation record of young firms is evidence of their will and ability to adjust and to innovate. We must use our resources to support these firms which create most of the new jobs in our economy. This focus was confirmed in my pre-budget discussions with small business people and their representatives.

All members will be aware of the extraordinary measure taken by my predecessor, the member for Muskoka (Mr. F. S. Miller), to help small businesses weather the recession. By exempting small firms from provincial corporate income tax for a three-year period, we have made a major contribution to preserving and creating employment. This has also ensured that our small firms emerged from the recession on a solid financial footing.

I have decided to continue the exemption from Ontario corporations income tax for startups and young firms. The exemption will apply to companies during their first three years of incorporation. It will mean an estimated $45-million annual benefit to new businesses in future years, providing significant support for young firms and reinforcing our commitment to entrepreneurship.

I have decided to maintain our commitment to the very successful small business development corporations program by providing a $25-million allocation for 1984-85. Consistent with the need to target and focus our efforts, changes will be made to increase the benefits available to new enterprises and provide pools of capital for small business in selected regions of the province.

The SBDC program will be organized into three separate funds. An amount of $12.5 million will be available to investors in small business throughout Ontario. In addition, a special fund of $7.5 million will be dedicated exclusively to investments in the north and east. Another special $5-million fund will be available specifically for investments in startups.

Further, to ensure wider and more effective distribution of equity capital, additional technical changes will be made which will, for example, limit the maximum size of SBDC investments in any one small business to $2.5 million.

Encouraging further investment in small business might be achieved most effectively through changes to the personal income tax system. Accordingly, I will be asking the federal government to join with us in looking at the following new approaches: permitting full deductibility of capital losses on shares in business startups; allowing self-administered registered retirement savings plans to invest in startups or other small businesses; and developing a special class of limited partnership, permitting the flow-through of tax deductions to investors.

These could be costly, but they may be cost-effective. Over the next few months, I intend to review carefully these and other ideas to support entrepreneurship and small business startups in our economy.

There will be a high premium on creative entrepreneurial activity during this time of profound economic transformation. While our small business tax and financing initiatives will help create a new generation of entrepreneurs, this budget goes further. We will encourage business enterprise as a career choice for women and men in our learning institutions and in the community at large. Accordingly, I am establishing a $10-million enterprise growth fund to invest in three new entrepreneur development initiatives.

First, we will establish innovation centres in selected universities and colleges to link the marketplace and the academic community. These centres should produce hundreds of new enterprises by providing a wide variety of business and technical support to innovators who want to commercialize their ideas, products and processes.

Furthermore, these centres will provide a welcome point of entry for local businesses to draw on the expertise of our learning institutions in developing their own potential products and processes.

Second, we will provide special funding to set up enterprise centres in communities across Ontario. These centres will provide new entrepreneurs with low-cost startup space and common support services such as bookkeeping and computer facilities. Assistance will be provided on a cost-shared basis to a municipality, in conjunction with a private developer, to rent, renovate and operate appropriate facilities.

Finally, many viable new businesses have been established by employees who go out on their own, initially as suppliers to the parent firm. We will encourage that activity by assisting with the costs of evaluating the potential for spinning off certain in-house activities to other local firms or to new businesses to be operated by current employees of large firms. This is a challenge to large businesses, not only to increase their own productivity and reduce their overhead but also to participate in the creation of new enterprise.

I turn now to special initiatives to strengthen key economic sectors and help our communities address the challenges of economic change.

My prebudget meetings across the province convinced me that the effects of social and economic transformation on each community are different and that each community must respond in a different way. Accordingly, we have designed a flexible program to aid community development in Ontario.

The province will enter into formal community economic transformation agreements with communities facing extreme structural change and where economic problems have been most severe and persistent. Under these agreements, the unique needs and potential of these communities will be assessed against the array of economic and community development programs now available. Enhanced assistance will then be tailored to individual circumstances. As part of this program, the province will cost-share with municipalities vital economic projects which will generate employment. We will commit $20 million to these agreements this year.

The government will also establish a new $10-million, three-year economic development program for northern Ontario. This new program will provide industrial infrastructure and, together with our new small business development corporation fund, will help diversify and strengthen the economy of the north. The Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr. Bernier) will be announcing details shortly.

Our investment in the agricultural sector will be increased substantially this year as we assist the farming community in transition. We have increased the budget of the Ministry of Agriculture and Food by 16.3 per cent this year. This growth reflects additional funds for new initiatives and enrichments of priority programs. The Ontario farm tax reduction program will be enriched by $18 million to $90 million and the beginning farmers program will provide a further $9 million this year. Action is also being taken by the Minister of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Timbrell) on our $62-million, five-year commitment to the new Ontario red meat plan and progress is being made in negotiating a national tripartite stabilization program.

4:50 p.m.

The agricultural community has consistently indicated that its fundamental concern is the cost of credit. Accordingly, I am announcing today that we are prepared to set up a national agribond program with the federal government.

In recent years Ontario and other governments have independently introduced programs to help farmers cope with the high cost of credit. My colleague the Minister of Agriculture and Food is taking the lead to consolidate the various programs under a Canada-wide agribond program. Our proposal is cost-effective and, with federal government participation, will lead to a substantial cut in borrowing costs for farmers. This is a high priority for us and we are determined to see established an appropriate national arrangement.

I am pleased to announce that the federal Minister of Finance and I have reached agreement on the funding of a new program to strengthen the management and renewal of our forests. Under this new agreement, $150 million will be provided by the two levels of government on an equal basis over the next five years to preserve our forestry industry.

We expect to undertake new minerals programs this year. A cost-shared federal-provincial mineral development agreement, for which we are allocating funding, should provide $30 million in support of geoscientific surveys, specific research and development projects. The Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Pope) will be working on these and other mining industry initiatives. In addition, we will be releasing a paper on taxation in the mining industry for discussion with the industry and the public. I am confident this process will help us to evaluate approaches to mining taxation most appropriate for the decade ahead.

Earlier I described our new youth tourism training program. As well as providing experience for young people, it will benefit many tourist firms that might not otherwise hire additional trained staff.

Further, to address a concern of Ontario's tourist industry, I am announcing today a temporary addition to the retail sales tax refund program for visitors to Ontario. Under the accommodation tax rebate program, the five per cent retail sales tax on accommodation will be rebated to out-of-province visitors effective midnight tonight unt11 December 31, 1984.

Finally, to ensure the long-term strength of this vital industry, I am providing funding for a five-year, $60-million joint tourism development agreement with the federal government. When concluded, this agreement will assist new projects, enhance visitor services and help upgrade planning and marketing activities.

The challenge today is not only economic. Major changes are taking place in the social fabric of Ontario and these changes must be reflected in our actions. We want independence, good health and dignity for our seniors. We will help the disabled contribute fully to their communities and lead active, independent lives. We want to give the disadvantaged a greater sense of purpose and self worth. We will deal compassionately with the problem of family violence. We will help those who rely on social assistance to assert their independence. We will increase access to day care for children from low-income families.

Through a range of new initiatives we will help those on social assistance who want to overcome welfare dependency to gain experience, employment and training and to participate more fully in our economy. These initiatives were raised at the federal-provincial meeting of finance ministers last December and are being developed in co-operation with the federal government under the shared-cost Canada assistance plan. They will require up to $120 million over three years.

Currently there are 50,000 young people on direct social assistance. Many lack the experience, motivation and self-confidence they need to find a job or acquire new skills. This year we will provide new opportunities to help these young people participate in the economy. Specifically, we will enable them to go back to high school or take special upgrading classes without losing social assistance; provide counselling in job search skills and basic work habits; and offer placements in business, industry and the community so they can build self-confidence and gain some work experience.

Other initiatives will focus on young people aged 12 to 18 whose parents are on social assistance. To help them prepare for an independent, productive future, we will provide summer counselling and employment-related experience. We will also provide funding for special support services for children most in need through children's aid societies and children's mental health centres.

Further, we are developing new programs to meet the specific needs of Ontario's 60,000 single parents on social assistance, most of whom are women. Many single parents lack access to affordable day care. At the same time, there is little incentive for them to participate in training programs or look for work when new wages are offset by greatly reduced social assistance benefits.

To meet the special needs of these single parents, we will provide increased support services such as day care to enable them to go out and participate in the labour market and we will place individuals in social service agencies where they can gain job experience while providing valuable services for the elderly and other groups in the community. New initiatives will also be developed to help disabled people who want to make the transition from social assistance to gainful employment.

We hope that up to 11,000 people will choose to take advantage of new opportunities to gain important skills and experience and thereby increase their long-term employment opportunities and possibilities. Our programs will ensure a more productive use of welfare funding. I urge employers, municipalities and social service agencies to join us in the delivery of these programs. Constructive discussions with the federal government are proceeding and the Minister of Community and Social Services (Mr. Drea) will soon be working with municipalities on the implementation of these important new initiatives.

Access to high-quality, affordable child care is an essential requirement for many who want to participate fully in our economy, particularly for those with lower incomes. Because child care is an important part of today's economy and society, I am allocating a further $4.8 million this year to provide 1,500 more full-time subsidized child care spaces. In addition, we will provide $1.2 million in day care subsidies through our expanded program to assist single parents on social assistance.

We want our elderly and disabled to lead active lives in their own communities away from institutions. Many elderly and disabled people want to live with their families. However, in some cases providing shelter requires extensive home renovations, which result in increased property taxes. We must encourage, not penalize, families for their efforts to provide shelter and supportive care.

Accordingly, I am announcing today that home owners who undertake renovations or additions specifically to keep an elderly or disabled person at home and in the community will be exempt from any increase in taxable assessment that would otherwise occur. Home owners who are elderly or disabled themselves would also qualify.

5 p.m.

We will continue to provide the highest standards of service for those who need institutional care. At the same time, we will look for new and more effective alternatives so our elderly and disabled can remain active in their own communities, close to family and friends. This assessment exemption is one such initiative.

We will also expand our program of attendant care to support independence for people with serious physical disabilities. Over the next five years, the number of people benefiting from this program will be almost doubled. In addition, a new outreach attendant care program will enable 240 severely handicapped people to remain in or return to their own homes. The total cost of these two attendant care initiatives will be in the order of $30 million over five years.

Finally, additional funding will be provided to enable the Ministry of Transportation and Communications to help municipalities purchase special buses for the physically handicapped.

Last month I released a policy paper detailing Ontario's proposals for reform of Canada's retirement income system. As we have already indicated, Ontario will raise payments of the guaranteed annual income system for the single elderly in conjunction with increases in the federal guaranteed income supplement. By the end of 1984, our single elderly will be guaranteed a basic annual income of more than $8,000, or 60 per cent of that provided to couples. These Gains increases will benefit 124,000 elderly persons in Ontario, most of whom are women. We are providing an additional $27 million for these improvements.

We now support more than 118,000 rent-geared-to-income housing units in Ontario. Because housing for the least fortunate is a priority of this government, I wish to announce today that we will increase our funding to enable 3,200 more families and disabled individuals to benefit from rent-geared-to-income housing. We will spend an additional $30 million over five years.

Last fall my colleague the Deputy Premier (Mr. Welch) announced new initiatives to address the urgent problem of family violence. At that time, $4 million was allocated to improve funding for transition houses and northern family resource centres and a further $1 million was provided for capital purposes.

Today I am announcing important enrichments to these initiatives. We will commit an additional $3.5 million to expand shelter services for battered women and their children and to provide emergency assistance and support. Further funding will be made available through the Ontario women's directorate for a public education campaign to increase awareness of this really intolerable problem and inform victims about the help that is available.

The major initiatives I have outlined today represent a sensitive and compassionate response to the special needs of the less fortunate in our society. They reflect the commitment of this government to enable all our people to lead active, productive and independent lives.

In 1975 this government introduced a policy of fiscal restraint. At that time, we had about 11 public servants for every 1,000 residents. After nine years of restraint, we are able to provide more and better services with only nine public servants for every 1,000 residents. Further efficiencies should be achieved this year.

These efficiencies have been accompanied by appropriate compensation policies. As a transition from mandatory wage controls in the public sector, last fall we established zero to five per cent as an appropriate range for average increases in total compensation. Our fiscal policy was set to reinforce this program by limiting the payroll component of transfer payments and allocations for civil service pay. Arbitrators are required to consider the employer's ability to pay in the light of existing provincial fiscal policy. I am encouraged that most public sector employers and employees have chosen to act responsibly in following this program.

In order to keep deficits and taxes down, governments must, above all, control their own costs. Therefore, I have decided to hold our direct operating expenditures for most activities to last year's level, rather than permit them to rise with inflation. This is a difficult step, but with the continued dedication and commitment of my cabinet colleagues and their ministries, I am confident this will be achieved.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: Our local governments must restrain their staffing and direct operating expenses as well. I expect them to do so this year and certainly to incorporate such restraint in their 1985 plans.

In determining our transfer payments to municipalities and school boards in 1984, we have been generous in making allowances for five per cent inflation for goods and services and a similar increase for salary costs. Therefore, local governments should be able to live with modest spending and mill rate increases provided they take as firm a stance as this government.

Unlike the province, local governments do not have to finance pressures in the health care system. Furthermore, our school boards are experiencing declining enrolments, and I expect that, on average, school mill rates can be held to increases of less than five per cent. Yet early indications are that some spending increases in the local sector this year will exceed what we consider to be appropriate.

I will be discussing with my colleagues ways in which we can more closely monitor the spending performance of our school boards and municipalities. It should not be necessary to control mill rates formally, and I am convinced that major savings to our taxpayers can be realized without any deterioration in the high level of local services. We are determined to see this happen.

On a surprising number of occasions during my prebudget meetings, concern was raised about the visibility of school board, as well as municipal, taxes. Municipalities are now required to inform their taxpayers on annual tax bills of both school and municipal tax burdens. But there is a need to ensure that this information is provided in a very clear fashion so there is a visible link between services that are provided and the cost of those services. The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing (Mr. Bennett) will be discussing this further with municipalities.

I also expect our own crown corporations and public agencies to follow the province's example of restraint. In some of these organizations where base salaries are relatively high, I expect salary growth rates in the future to be held below the five per cent maximum guideline introduced this year. Further, just as the province is holding its overhead expenses, I believe public agencies and corporations should demonstrate similar resolve.

We are witnessing a healthy public debate on crown corporations in Canada. We believe Ontario can benefit from an examination of its crown sector. To this end, the Ministry of Treasury and Economics is initiating a special government review that will examine the mandates of our crown corporations, including instances where privatization might better serve the public.

Mr. Conway: I dare the minister to privatize the liquor stores.

Mr. Ruston: Or Suncor.

Mr. Speaker: Order.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: In the light of moderating needs for government buildings, I believe significant savings for new spending priorities can be achieved through the sale or lease of government land holdings in urban and commercial areas. Where these lands can be sold, they will be.

5:10 p.m.

All of these measures will assist us in delivering quality services to our citizens and in keeping taxes or fees to a minimum, a subject to which I now turn.

In providing new measures to support economic and social transformation, I have weighed three basic factors: our ability to restrain costs, our responsibility to reduce the deficit and the taxpayer's capacity to pay more. I have attempted to strike a balance which I believe should serve the immediate and future needs of this province.

First, flat-lining our direct operating expenditures for most government activities and selling off property holdings no longer essential to our needs will secure $75 million in necessary savings to help finance our new initiatives.

Second, fiscal responsibility demands that we move to reduce our deficit further as the economy expands. We will meet this responsibility in a prudent fashion.

Third, while economic expansion is under way, major tax increases would undermine activity and confidence. The targeted approach to spending we have adopted enables us to achieve our economic and social objectives without any major tax increases.

In addition to no tax increases, I have decided that the personal income tax surcharge of five per cent will expire on December 31, 1984, as scheduled.

Mr. Wrye: Imagine making a promise and keeping it.

Mr. Gillies: You are criticizing it.

Mr. Wrye: I am so shocked you kept a promise.

Mr. Gillies: Say something bad about it.

Interjections.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: I understand, but do not share the member's disappointment.

There are, however, three measures I believe are appropriate.

This year the increase in Ontario health insurance plan premiums will be limited to 4.9 per cent, in line with our continued commitment to the provincial restraint program. This monthly increase of $1.40 for single persons and $2.80 for family coverage will yield $69 million in additional revenue.

While this is necessary and appropriate, it must be acknowledged that it is very modest when compared to more than $800 million that was added to our health care bill last year. We must recognize that major costs are involved in protecting the excellence of our health care system. OHIP premiums have a legitimate role to play in financing these costs. While we expect the growth in health care costs to moderate this year, the proportion of costs covered by OHIP premiums will decline. Premiums paid for 24.3 per cent of the health bill five years ago, covered only 19.5 per cent last year and will carry even less this year. I believe there should be a clear and continuing link between premiums and the cost of health care.

We have reviewed the charges levied for the right to use publicly owned water resources in the production of electrical power. Ontario Hydro is the principal user of these rights. With the exception of annual adjustments related to the rate of inflation, these water rental charges have not been increased for Ontario Hydro since 1958. Consequently, effective June 1, Ontario Hydro's water rental rates will be adjusted to reflect more accurately the value of this resource. In 1984-85, this increase in water rental rates will produce an additional $44 million in revenue.

In provinces which have their corporate income taxes collected by the federal government, banks are required to claim the same reserves for provincial income tax purposes as claimed at the federal level. In Ontario, banks have utilized the current provisions in our statute to claim an amount greater than that claimed for purposes of federal tax. This has minimized taxes paid to Ontario. I propose to harmonize our treatment with that of the majority of the provinces by requiring that the reserve amounts claimed by banks for Ontario tax purposes not exceed those claimed for federal tax purposes. This change, effective for fiscal years ending after May 15, 1984, will increase revenues in the order of $5 million this year.

I am also concerned that the current formula for allocating the world income and capital of banks does not provide Ontario and other provinces with their fair share of tax revenues. I will therefore propose that a complete review of the allocation rules applicable for determining the tax base for banks be undertaken by the provinces and the federal government.

Further details on these three measures are included in appendix A.

Our overriding concern and responsibility is the wellbeing of our citizens and the health of the provincial economy. The 1984-85 fiscal plan will honour these objectives and maintain our record of solid financial management.

I am pleased to report to this Legislature a reduction of $345 million in the level of our net cash requirements for the year just ended. This reduction, from the 1983 budget projection of $2,695,000,000 to an expected $2,350,000,000, reverses the experience of recent years when the deficit had to rise to help alleviate the impact of the recession on our economy and our people.

In my autumn prebudget statement I stressed that the deficit level must be reduced. Progress has been made and we will go further. For the 1984-85 fiscal year, I am projecting that provincial net cash requirements will be reduced to $2,039,000,000. Revenues, strengthened by our strong economic performance, are now anticipated to grow by 9.6 per cent while expenditures, tempered by our commitment to restraint, will be held to 7.4 per cent.

The downward trend in Ontario's net cash requirements is especially evident when measured against total provincial spending. In 1984-85, the deficit is expected to represent 7.6 per cent of total government spending, compared to 10.8 per cent only two years ago.

5:20 p.m.

Our cash requirements can be financed from internal sources without recourse to the public capital markets. Consequently, Ontario's only capital market activity this year will be to refinance existing Treasury bill borrowing.

I want to emphasize that we are achieving this significant improvement in our net cash requirements while we are increasing our already substantial capital investments. Our borrowing is directed towards new investments of lasting value to the province. In 1984-85, the government will invest almost $2.4 billion in upgrading and strengthening our social and economic infrastructure. No borrowing will be required to meet our operating costs.

Before concluding this important statement, I should like acknowledge the excellent and hard work and the dedication shown by the staff of the Ministry of Treasury and Economics under the effective leadership of my deputy minister, Tom Campbell, and the assistant deputy minister for the office of budget, Mr. Bryan Davies. In addition, the leadership, guidance and patience shown by my own personal staff, headed by Michael Landry and Caroline Shirreff, was of great assistance to myself and the staff of the Ministry of Treasury and Economics in putting together this comprehensive and effective document.

As I said in my autumn statement, the 1984 budget should be both an economic and social document. I believe we have achieved that goal. This budget creates new opportunities for young people and older workers. It improves job access for women. It helps the disadvantaged and the elderly to live independently in their communities. It strengthens the role of our learning institutions. It helps our small businesses to grow and our large firms to innovate. It encourages enterprise and entrepreneurship. It faces up to the reality of change and deals with it.

We are reaffirming our commitment to restraint. We are avoiding significant tax increases. We will reduce the deficit. Our ability to develop these wide-ranging new initiatives is due in large part to the assistance, co-operation and support of my colleagues, all of whom I wish to thank today. By building on our strong economic circumstances and enriching our network of compassionate social services, this budget honours the goals, the values and the tradition of leadership of our Premier.

Mr. Conway: That was a nice touch.

Hon. Mr. Grossman: And, unlike on the member's side, a sincere touch.

We have rejected temporary, short-term measures. Instead, this budget makes strategic long-term investments in our people and our future. It is right for our time. It is right for our people. I am confident it will make an important contribution to continued prosperity as we assist and shape Ontario's social and economic transformation.

On motion by Mr. T. P. Reid, the debate was adjourned.

The House adjourned at 5:26 p.m.

15 mai 1984