The committee met at 0900 in committee room 1.

Intended appointments

Mr. Quinto Annibale

Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: Quinto Annibale, intended appointee as member, Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): I’d like to call this meeting to order. Good morning, everybody.

We have Quinto Annibale, nominated as member and vice-chair for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario. Could you please come forward? Welcome.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): As you may be aware, you have the opportunity, should you choose to do so, to make an initial statement. Following this, there will be questions from members of the committee. With that questioning, we will start with the official opposition, followed by the government, with 15 minutes allocated to each recognized party. Any time you take in your statement will be deducted from the time allotted to the government.

The floor is yours.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and members of the Standing Committee on Government Agencies. It’s my pleasure and my honour to have been nominated to serve as a member and vice-chair of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

I’d like to take a couple of minutes of the committee’s time to tell you a little bit about myself. I am a resident of Vaughan, Ontario, where I live with my wife, Dianne, and our three children. I have been a resident of Vaughan for about 23 years. Before moving to Vaughan, I lived in Hamilton, Ontario, where I was born and lived until about the age of 26. In between those two sojourns, I lived in the city of Toronto.

In terms of education, I have a BA from McMaster University and an LLB from Queen’s law school. I have a certificate in not-for profit corporations from the Institute of Corporate Directors at the Rotman School of Business and I have my certificate in mediation from Harvard University.

I was called to the Ontario bar in 1987, after having articled for the regional municipality of Hamilton–Wentworth. I have spent my entire 32-year legal career at the same law firm, Loopstra Nixon LLP, which is located in the northwest part of the city of Toronto. Loopstra Nixon is a 46-lawyer, full-service law firm which employs about 130 people. I am the practise lead for the municipal, land use planning and development law group, which is a group of six lawyers who practice exclusively in this field. I act mostly for municipalities, but I do work for developer clients as well. My legal work consists largely of litigating land use planning cases before the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal of Ontario.

I have extensive board and community experience as well, having served on many not-for-profit and charitable organizations. In the past, I have served as chair of the board of a private school in King City, Villanova College, and as vice-chair and corporate secretary on several other boards. I have served on the board of directors for York Central Hospital. At the present time, I am the vice-chair of the Villa Colombo Vaughan long-term-care home in Kleinburg and the corporate secretary for Augustinian Fathers Ontario Inc. at Marylake in King City.

Two of my greatest achievements while having served on some of these boards were, firstly, my involvement in the development of the new Mackenzie Health Hospital in Vaughan, which included the negotiation and acquisition of the parcel of land upon which the hospital is being built today. We acquired that land from Canada’s Wonderland in the middle of the financial crisis of 2007-08, and I like to think that I played a pivotal role in acquiring that land and making that transaction happen.

My second most proud achievement is my contribution to the governance restructuring of Villa Charities Inc. Some of you will be familiar with that; it is an Italian benevolent and community organization located at Dufferin and Lawrence in the city of Toronto. Villa Columbo Vaughan, which I sit on in Kleinburg, is one of the sister affiliates of that corporation, and through that board membership, I was involved in the restructuring of that board as well.

I’m proud as well, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, of having founded the Carol Annibale Ovarian Cancer Foundation, a not-for-profit charity that was established in memory of my late wife, which I continue to run today.

I believe that my qualifications will suit me well for appointment to the LCBO, if this committee sees fit to confirm that appointment. In particular, I believe I have a profound understanding of corporate governance, and I look forward to applying my skills so that I may contribute to the continued successful operation of the world’s largest purchaser of beverage alcohol.

I welcome this opportunity to continue to serve the public interest by serving on the board of the LCBO. It’s a truly exciting time to be joining the LCBO. With the retail landscape changing so quickly worldwide, and with the stakeholder consultation that’s currently under way with respect to this business, I think it will also be a challenging time to be involved with the LCBO.

If I am confirmed, I look forward to receiving the feedback that results from the public consultation, and in particular, to receiving the recommendations of the newly appointed adviser on the modernization of the beverage alcohol system in the province, Mr. Ken Hughes. I look forward to rolling up my sleeves and getting to work on that board if I am confirmed.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for your indulgence in allowing me to give this introductory presentation. I’m open to any questions that the committee may have, of course.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Thank you very much. The questioning will start with the official opposition. Mr. Burch?

Mr. Jeff Burch: Thank you for being here this morning. Just a couple of questions. First of all, I’d like to know: What is your opinion of protecting Ontario farmers such as Ontario grape growers through shelf-space legislation and issues like that with the LCBO?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Through you, Mr. Chair, to the member: I think protecting Ontario farmers is a very important objective of the LCBO. I know that there is currently a very strong initiative in the LCBO to promote Ontario wines and, through that, to promote Ontario farmers; not just wines but also the craft beer industry, and cider. I think that’s an important program. I think that’s one that should continue and it’s one that should be improved.

Mr. Jeff Burch: There is a lot of talk about possibly moving to an Alberta-style system and also allowing alcohol sales in corner stores. How do you think that that meshes with protecting Ontario farmers and Ontario products?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Through you, Mr. Chair, I think Ontario products can continue to be promoted through that program if it’s instituted. I think at the moment it’s speculation in the press as to whether we’ll adopt the Alberta model or whether we’ll adopt a modified version of the Alberta model—or adopt the Alberta model at all. I think that’s the subject matter of the public consultation at the moment, so I don’t want to prejudge it by saying that one or another result will conclude from that.

But if, in fact, the Alberta model were to be adopted, I don’t see that as a hindrance to promoting Ontario farmers and Ontario products. I think, given the LCBO’s history, any time it’s expanded its retailing operations, whether it be through agency stores or kiosks or other—online retailing—I think front and centre in those initiatives has always been the promotion of Ontario products and Ontario wines. I think that should continue. I think it’s very important to Ontario that that be done.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Do you have an opinion on selling booze in corner stores?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: I don’t have an opinion. I look forward to the work of the public consultation on that. I’ve read the papers, like everyone else, and I’m aware that the corner store business is not what it used to be. Corner stores used to play a much more central part in our daily lives, but fortunately, or unfortunately, that has changed and we’ve gone to doing most of our purchasing through big-box stores. So in terms of an impact on sales, I would expect that it is perhaps not as great as it might have been had it been done, say, 10 or 15 years ago. But, no, I don’t have any preconceived notions about sales in corner stores.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Ms. Stiles?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Thank you very much for your presentation. I appreciate your responses to my colleague’s questions. Just to be more specific, are you familiar with some of the issues that have arisen around the Alberta approach?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: I’d like to think I’m as familiar with them as the average person.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Given your background—you work as a development lawyer, right?—what specifically do you think you bring to this conversation about the future of those sales?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: I think there are very many aspects of the law that will inform the discussion about sales to corner stores, so there will labour relations or safety-type issues and security-type issues, and there will be issues related to supply chain management. There will be other legal issues. Given my experience and given my 32 years as a practising lawyer and my appreciation of how to read legislation, apply legislation and apply regulations, I think that would suit me well for the position, to deal with that issue.

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Ms. Marit Stiles: You’ll forgive me for this—but we do have to ask these questions. We have seen a large number of rather partisan appointments, so you’ll forgive me if I have to ask you if you are or have ever been a member of the Conservative Party of Ontario or Canada.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: I am a member of the Conservative Party of Ontario. I have not been a member of the federal Conservative Party. I’ve been a member of both the Liberal Party and the NDP in the past.

Ms. Marit Stiles: That’s interesting.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: I grew up in Hamilton, Mr. Chair—

Ms. Marit Stiles: Oh, that explains everything.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Well rounded.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Well rounded.

If you wouldn’t mind me asking whether or not you’ve donated to the Conservative Party of Canada or Ontario—

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Through you, Mr. Chair: Yes, I have donated to the Conservative Party of Ontario. I’ve also donated to the Liberal Party of Ontario. I think I was too young to donate to the NDP.

Ms. Marit Stiles: There’s still time. Thank you very much.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: You’re welcome.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Does that conclude questions from the opposition? Thank you.

We will turn to the government. You have nine minutes and 30 seconds. Mr. Nicholls.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Good morning, Mr. Annibale. It’s nice to see you again. It’s nice to have you here.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Good morning, sir.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Looking at your 32 years of professional experience—I think that’s very noteworthy—and of course, looking at your various accomplishments over those 32 years, what aspects of your professional experience do you feel will serve you well on the board of the LCBO—and looking at maybe one or two of those and saying, “Yes, this is what I did, and this is how I can transpose those skill sets into being a member of the LCBO.”

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Through you, Mr. Chair: One of the skills that I’ve developed both as a practising lawyer and out of a side interest in corporate governance is an understanding and appreciation of how boards and corporations operate.

As I said in my introductory comments, I have taken a certificate in not-for-profit governance from the Rotman school of business, through the ICD.D program, and I’ve served on more than 10 not-for-profit corporations, so I think I’m very well versed in principles of corporate governance and principles of corporate organization.

I have a very good appreciation of what the role of a board member should be vis-à-vis the operation of the organization that the board has oversight over. I think that aspect of my training will stand me in good stead to serve on the board of the LCBO and to be its vice-chair, should the committee confirm my appointment.

In addition to that, I’ve taken training as a mediator. Certainly, having some mediation skills can’t hurt when sitting on a board like the LCBO. I intend to apply those skills, as well.

I’m a litigator, so I can advocate, I think, very well for one position or another when it comes to matters of policy. I’m a municipal lawyer, and so while, strictly speaking, my job is to apply the law and to advocate for positions, I’m also involved in discussions of policy with my clients—mostly municipalities. There’s a bit of a blurring of the lines between the practice of law when you act for a municipality—because it’s not just the pure application of the law, but you also stray into policy. I know there’s a lot of policy involved with the LCBO. I look forward to applying my skills to do that.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: I appreciate that, Mr. Annibale. I know that you’re used to asking the questions, not answering the questions. Thank you very much for your time.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Mr. Cuzzetto.

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto: Thank you very much for being here today.

What challenges do you think the LCBO currently has, and have you—in your position, to help to solve these issues?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Through you, Mr. Chair: A couple come to mind. One is online retailing, or retailing in general. The nature of retailing, as you all know, has changed dramatically throughout the world—not just in Ontario or Toronto, but throughout the world—and moves every day more towards e-commerce and apps and online purchasing.

I know that the LCBO has done a tremendous job of trying to keep up with that, but I think more needs to be done, because the trend seems to be towards more online retailing.

I think my skills as a lawyer will, for all of the reasons that I’ve said—I don’t want to pound my chest again, but for all of the reasons that I’ve said, I think my skills as a lawyer would help me in those challenges.

The other thing that I think is a challenge to the LCBO is the theft problem, the loss prevention problem. I know that’s an issue that has been in the press a lot lately. I know that the LCBO has taken steps to deal with that by implementing measures, two of which were the posting of security guards at stores, and other measures which I’m not privy to or familiar with.

But I think more has to be done. When you read the accounts that the LCBO has a higher-than-industry average or higher-than-retail average for thefts and losses, an alarm bell goes off that says to me that maybe we’re not doing as well as we should be, and should be doing more.

There are a number of issues around loss prevention that are legal issues, frankly, which I think, given my experience and training, I’ll be well positioned to handle.

There are issues of labour relations. How much do we expect employees in a store to do to stop theft, and how much can we expect employees in a store to stop theft? What are the implications of that for the collective bargaining process? Is that permitted? How far can you go in the collective bargaining process to permit that?

There are issues around privacy, surveillance of customers, and use of customer data to establish loss prevention programs.

Community policing: How involved should the police be? At one point several months ago, the papers reported that the police were not investigating thefts as thoroughly as they should—not because they didn’t want to, but because they had other priorities for more violent crimes. Is that an adequate use of policing? I know that the LCBO doesn’t control the police, but certainly it can have a voice in that conversation with community police.

There are a lot of legal issues that go into the issue of loss prevention. Given my experience and understanding of the law, I think I’m suited for that role, and I think I’ll contribute to the board if I’m confirmed.

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto: Thank you very much for that.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Mr. Roberts.

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: First of all, thank you so much for being here this morning. I’m always impressed by folks who obviously have a very busy work life already and who are willing to step up and commit to public service like this, so I really commend you for that.

I’m just interested—you touched on this a little bit in your opening remarks, but could you share a little bit more about some of your community service and charitable activities as well?

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Certainly. I love talking about myself. Thank you for the opportunity.

Through you, Mr. Chair, it’s mostly in the not-for-profit sector, almost exclusively in the not-for-profit sector. That’s one of the reasons why I’m really excited about the potential to serve as a board member on the LCBO, because while it’s a government agency, it is a for-profit. I think they call it an operational enterprise. It is a for-profit corporation, so I’m looking forward to expanding my horizons that way.

Some of the other experiences that I’ve been involved with—I mentioned a couple in my opening. I was on the board of directors of York Central Hospital at a very crucial time in the hospital’s history, because it was embarking on a development campaign to build the first greenfield hospital that has been built in Ontario in over 40 years. I was on the redevelopment committee for that.

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I also served on two related corporations, the Vaughan Health Campus of Care and the Vaughan Health Care Foundation, which had the dual role of initially spearheading the bringing of the hospital to Vaughan before the project was taken over by York Central Hospital, now Mackenzie Health—but also tasked with, as I mentioned, purchasing the land. It’s an achievement I’m really proud of because we bought an $80-million piece of land in the depth of the financial crisis by putting a million dollars down and then convincing the taxpayers of Vaughan to pony up the other $79 million to close the transaction. It worked, so I’m very pleased with that.

As a member of the Vaughan Health Care Foundation, in a related initiative, I contributed—in a significant way, I think—to the raising of $10 million, which acted as the initial seed capital for the construction of the hospital.

I’m the past chair of the board of directors for Villanova College in King City, which is an independent Catholic elementary and high school that is only in its 10th year of operation. A couple of initiatives that I spearheaded there: the restructuring of the debt of the school, to take it from a parent-paid bond program to conventional bank debt. I also spearheaded the installation of a solar panel system on the roof of the school, which led to a revenue stream for the school. I’m proud of those things.

I mentioned the Villa Charities Inc. initiative, the governance restructuring. That was a long process with a lot of stakeholders around the table that needed to be involved and managed. We’re almost at the end of that process, so I’m very happy with that.

I’m on the board of the Augustinian fathers in King City, which I mentioned. That’s an interesting project because it’s headed out of Chicago—the international Augustinian fathers. We’re a sub of that. It’s a 600-acre piece of beautiful property in King City—which we can’t do anything with because it’s in the Oak Ridges moraine, so it’s a real challenge to keep that place going. There’s a shrine and a monastery there. I’m involved with some of the strategic planning around what to do with that property going forward so that it remains sustainable.

A long-winded answer to your question.

Mr. Jeremy Roberts: No, no.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): And that concludes the time allocated for questions.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Oh, dear.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Thank you very much. You may step down.

Mr. Quinto Annibale: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer

Review of intended appointment, selected by official opposition party: Terry Steven De Boer, intended appointee as member, police services board—Durham regional (municipality of).

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): We have Steve De Boer, nominated as member of the municipality of Durham Regional Police Services Board. Would you please come forward? Thank you.

As you may be aware, you have the opportunity, should you choose to do so, to make an initial statement. Following this, there will be questions from members of the committee. With that questioning we will start with the government, followed by the official opposition, with 15 minutes allocated to each recognized party. Any time you take in your statement will be deducted from the time allocated to the government.

Welcome, and the floor is yours.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to make a brief opening statement, since that is allowed.

First of all, good day. Thank you, committee members, for being here today. It’s a wonderful opportunity to be here to discuss the position of being a member of the Durham regional police board.

Over the last six years, I’ve had the opportunity to serve on two separate boards: the Veridian Connections board, our local utility, and also the Clarington Board of Trade, which I’m still a member of right now. Over this time, I’ve had the ability to take on several roles and responsibilities on these boards, as you can see from my resumé.

I’ve also had the opportunity to educate myself on good governance by completing and receiving my chartered directorship through the Directors College, which is through McMaster University. This education has taught me many things about the roles of directors and the responsibility of what a director has to be in charge of. This education has also allowed me to become a better director for the organizations that I am currently a part of.

Some of the highlights of my growing responsibilities that I had as I was serving on the Veridian Connections board: I was elected to be the chair of the AFFCO subcommittee, whose scope of work included the merging of the existing non-regulated businesses of both Whitby Hydro and Veridian Connections. This also included the creation of a new strategic plan, hiring a CEO and creating a new culture for this new corporation. This was both a challenging and yet a very satisfying process to be involved in and lead.

The Clarington Board of Trade has gone through major changes over the last three years, and I have been lucky to be a part of this process. The organization has what we have called “grown up,” and the board has changed its purpose from an operational board to a governance board. I was a part of this process in which we changed and updated the bylaws, created new committees, populated these committees and also, with that, I ended up being the chair. I currently chair both the governance and the finance committee, and also sit on the executive committee. Once again, being involved in this process of a changeover from an operational board to a governance board has been quite a process, and it has been very challenging as well.

I also do consider myself very in touch with our local community, which is Clarington, and also regionally. I attend as many events as possible and I’ve also been invited to be a member of a special cabinet for our local hospital foundation as we continue to raise money towards our local hospital expansion.

With this in mind, I think I would be a valuable member of the Durham Regional Police Services Board, and I look forward to helping improve this organization, going forward. I look forward to your comments and questions.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Thank you.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): First questions will go to the government. Mr. Ke.

Mr. Vincent Ke: Thank you for coming to our committee. As to your background, most of your career is sales and marketing. Can you tell our committee what is your experience and how your experience can influence the new position you have applied to at the Durham Regional Police Services Board?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: That’s a very interesting question. As you can see from my resumé, it’s almost like there are two different dichotomies going on. There’s a sales-and-marketing background, and then there’s a governance background. I like to consider sales more of an event process, and governance is more of a long-term process.

I think because I feel like I have very good skills in areas such as teamwork, effective listening, empathy, emotional intelligence—these all allow me to be a very collaborative type of person and enable me to allow the leadership to come out in order to get to the results that we need to get to when it comes to either in a sales aspect or in a governance aspect. Even though they’re separate, they do run parallel. It does come down to interpersonal skills, the ability to communicate and the ability to reach the goals of the organization.

If you can keep that process going, that open communication and collaborative process, whether it’s in sales or whether it is in governance, we have to make sure that we’re getting to the same end goal. Hopefully that answers your question, sir.

Mr. Vincent Ke: Okay. Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Mr. Cuzzetto.

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto: Thank you very much for being here. I’ve noticed that you sat on the board of the utility company.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Yes.

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto: How will that prepare you for the police services board?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: As I said in my opening statement, I’ve had an opportunity to take on a lot of different roles with the utility over the last four years, the last one being as the chair of the AFFCO subcommittee, which once again is taking all the non-regulated businesses of both entities and trying to pull them together as a new corporation separate from the actual utility, from the lines and wires division. We were given the scope of work to create a new business plan for it, a new model to try and create a new culture, which is always a little bit of a challenge when you come from the utility world and you’re trying to change it from, I want to say, the usual utility process—but it’s very process-oriented—and to change it to be more dynamic.

There have been some challenges in that, and it’s been a fun process. But also we had to go through a whole process, like I said, of creating a new strategic plan, short- and long-term, and also hiring a new CEO. Now, I know it’s not called the CEO—it’s a chief when it comes to the police board—but I believe those same skill sets can be used, going forward. There are four main responsibilities of any director of any corporation: We monitor and manage the CEO; we monitor and manage the financials; we manage the long-term and short-term plan; and we also manage any mitigating risk that is going on with the corporation. If we can do those four things, the corporation is going to become successful.

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto: Thank you very much.

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The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Ms. Fee.

Mrs. Amy Fee: Thank you again for being here this morning. You were talking quite a bit about Clarington and your passion for the community. I’m just wondering if you could talk about ways that you think that Durham police can serve the community, residents, as well as businesses that are going down that road.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Yes, a very good question. Thank you. I feel that being part of a local board of trade or any organization of that ilk also allows me to find out—maybe not directly, but indirectly—as to how the community feels about policing: Are there any issues that are going on that that maybe the police are not aware of? I would consider it part of my role to question the chief on those types of areas. Maybe there is something going on that we’re not aware of, or that maybe the community is not aware of.

I can be a little bit of a conduit of information back and forth to both sides, and I think that would be a key to keeping what the community policing initiative effective. Even we as board members, even though we’re not actual officers, have a responsibility to keep that community line open as much as possible between us and the police. I think it’s very critical.

Mrs. Amy Fee: Thank you.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Mr. Baber.

Mr. Roman Baber: Thank you for coming here today. As you may know, our government is in the process of passing the Comprehensive Ontario Police Services Act. Bill 68 is making its way through, I believe, back to the House. I’m wondering if you can offer some thoughts on how Bill 68 will affect the police and specifically the police services boards.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Yes, good question; thank you. I think that Bill 68 is a bill that’s going to make the police services boards become more effective. If boards have not had a strategic plan in place already, this being forced upon them is a good thing. I feel that more training and diversity is always needed, whether it’s on a board level, on a police management level or an actual on-the-streets level.

The comprehensive nature of what this bill’s going to do is going to make not only boards more effective, but it’s going to make the whole community policing system more effective by bringing various branches together to allow one conduit, one line of communication going back and forth. It’s only going to make things more efficient and allow not only boards but the whole police service to become effective.

Mr. Roman Baber: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): No further questions from the government side? Thank you.

We will now turn to the official opposition, Mr. Burch.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Welcome this morning.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Thank you.

Mr. Jeff Burch: In our opinion, there have been an awful lot of partisan appointments under this government to committees, and so I have to ask you a few questions to start. Are you a member of the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Yes, I am.

Mr. Jeff Burch: And have you made any donations in the last couple of years?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: No, I have not.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Do you have any business relationships with anyone in the Progressive Conservative Party?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: No, I do not.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Who approached who? Did you approach the government desiring an appointment or did the government seek you out?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Good question. After I received my chartership, which was last June, I thought it would be fundamental for me to try to put this in the process and try to see how I can use my education experience to go further. So within a couple of weeks of that, I started applying through the PAS office for various positions and then I was told in January that I have been nominated. That’s as much as I know on that process, unfortunately.

Mr. Jeff Burch: You have no prior relationship with Dean French?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: With who? Jennifer French?

Mr. Jeff Burch: Dean French.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Oh, Dean French. No, no. No idea who that person is. Sorry.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Thank you. With respect to the issue of carding, what is your knowledge of that practice and do you approve of it or disapprove of it?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: If you’re considering carding being stopping people because of race, creed, colour or any of those things, I am totally against that. That should not be allowed to happen. If there are instances of that being reported through our police board, then I believe we would be working to rectify that to make sure that doesn’t happen in the future. I don’t think there is any need for that anywhere.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Okay. You have some pretty extensive board experience, I notice, which is good. Have you had anti-racism training and policy experience around diversity?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: I have had some in the past. I think it would be a welcome addition, not only on a board level but all the way down through the police services, to continue that process.

In Durham region, we are becoming the eastern melting pot, I guess, if you want to call it that. A lot of people move in from out of the area, out of Toronto and Mississauga, coming to Durham due how to housing prices are a little bit less. I feel that the more understanding we can have of those communities and subcultures, the better off everybody is. The more community-based policing we can have in those cultures and more communication, as well, between both sides, it’s only going to de-escalate any potential issues.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Have you made yourself familiar with the changes that have come under the Comprehensive Ontario Police Services Act?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: Somewhat, yes; I’m somewhat aware. I’m not down to the nitty-gritty because I’m not officially on the police board yet, so I can’t really—as much as I want to delve into it, I just want to make sure that the proper process is followed.

Mr. Jeff Burch: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Ms. Stiles.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Thank you again for your thoughtful answers to the questions that we’ve all been putting to you. I just have a few more.

I want to follow up on my colleague’s questions a little bit. You talked a little bit about your feelings about the practice of carding. Are there any instances where you think it may be permissible?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: We’re starting to get into a little bit more of the operational side of things. From a board governance level, that’s not really our forte, nor should we be involved in any sort of operational planning.

If the chief were to come to us with a suggestion for a situation that is occurring where he may need that, I think we would have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. If he was going to bring something to us or he said that we need to look at this certain group, I’m not sure if it would be a viable option. I don’t believe it would be.

Ms. Marit Stiles: I appreciate you’re not in there yet, so I appreciate that. I just think it’s also kind of a policy question as well as an operation question. But anyway.

One of the more contentious issues around carding is, if we do not allow carding, then what happens to the data that has already been collected? Some would say that that data should be destroyed because it was obtained in a way that is, arguably, discriminatory. What are your feelings about that?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: That’s a very good question. Already having the data—once again, I think that’s a very grey area. If you’re collecting data on people who already have a criminal record, I don’t know if that would be a proper thing or not. I would rather see none altogether and just make it a clean base start.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Yes, a clean slate. Okay, thank you.

Just another question, because I did notice that as a Conservative Party member, you’ve also not always been happy with some of the moves on the part of this government and maybe publicly said some things, I believe, particularly around the changes under the Better Local Government Act. Are there any concerns you have about that and about the government’s role in that?

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: No, I don’t really have too many thoughts at this time on that. I’m just trying to remember even the event that you’re talking about.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Yes.

Mr. Roman Baber: Point of order: I think, Chair, we should keep the questions relevant to the appointment or to the subject matter of the appointment.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): If I may, the history of the witness—if the witness is willing to answer the question, I don’t feel that’s a point of order.

0940

Ms. Marit Stiles: It is a publicly available tweet. Anyway, I appreciate that. Maybe it was in the moment.

I think that’s all the questions that I have.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Thank you very much. The questioning and grilling is over. You may step down.

Mr. Terry Steven De Boer: No, thank you very much for the opportunity to come and speak with you.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Thank you.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): We will now consider the intended appointment of Mr. Quinto Annibale, member and vice-chair for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

Ms. Fee?

Mrs. Amy Fee: I move concurrence in the intended appointment of Quinto Annibale, nominated as member and vice-chair for the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Ms. Fee. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favour? Opposed? Carried.

We will now consider the intended appointment of Mr. Terry Steven De Boer, member, for the municipality of Durham Regional Police Services Board.

Ms. Fee.

Mrs. Amy Fee: I move concurrence in the intended appointment of Terry Steven De Boer, nominated as member for the municipality of Durham Regional Police Services Board.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Concurrence in the appointment has been moved by Ms. Fee. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favour? Opposed? The motion is carried.

We have several deadlines—we need unanimous consent—that we’re going to have to move. So, bear with me; there are quite a few of them.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Michael Ceci, selected from the March 4, 2019, certificate, is April 3, 2019. Do we have unanimous consent to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Michael Ceci to May 3, 2019?

Interjections: No.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Okay.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Mr. Chair, may I ask a question about these?

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Sure.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Is there any explanation provided for why we haven’t, for example, in the case of that candidate, actually been able to schedule an opportunity within the amount of time provided? Because this seems to be a regular occurrence that’s happening now. We have requested that these people appear. We can’t seem to get them here in time. I feel like we’re really not doing a great service for the people of Ontario if we’re not able to review these appointments.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Can we look into why?

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): Just based on the number of selections made from the certificate, there are only a certain number of slots that can be scheduled within the 30-day period. In order to schedule all of the selections, unanimous consent is required. That’s why we ask the committee, to see if there is agreement.

Ms. Marit Stiles: But there have been times when we’ve only had one person appear. So I would ask whether or not maybe we could get unanimous consent to look at adding additional days and opportunities to meet, so that we could actually review all of these appointments properly.

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): In that case, you would need agreement from the House, basically, to add additional days. Otherwise, in a period where there is an adjournment of over a week, the committee is permitted to sit up to three times, I believe.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Sorry, three times for—

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): Whenever there is an adjournment of over a week. If during the summer, for example, the committee was looking to sit, you could sit up to three times.

Ms. Marit Stiles: So if we were able to extend these by even a few weeks, we might still have opportunity, though, to schedule them?

The Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Jocelyn McCauley): Yes. That’s why we ask for unanimous consent of the committee.

So we will continue—

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): So we will continue and deal with these.

Ms. Marit Stiles: But may I ask if it is possible, if an issue is one of scheduling—if somebody is unable to find the time, for example—and I’m not saying that’s the case—in amongst the dates that we’ve offered to come in, it would be really good for us to know, because I think that might speak to the commitment of the person to the role. Certainly, it limits our ability as parliamentarians to actually do our jobs.

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): The deadline to review the intended appointment of James Barry Hatt, selected from the March 4, 2019, certificate, is April 3, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of James Barry Hatt to May 3, 2019? There’s a no.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Leonard Hector Howell, selected from the March 4, 2019, certificate, is April 3, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Leonard Hector Howell to May 3, 2019? I heard a no, so we don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Kevin Albert Gale, selected from the March 4, 2019, certificate, is April 3, 2019. Do we have unanimous consent to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Kevin Albert Gale to May 3, 2019? I heard a no, so we don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Donald William Fuoco, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Donald William Fuoco to June 2, 2019? I heard a no, so we don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Roderick Frank Curran, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Roderick Frank Curran to June 2, 2019? I heard a no. We don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Alan Carl Spacek, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Alan Carl Spacek to June 2, 2019? I heard a no, so we don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of James Malcolm Montgomery, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of James Malcolm Montgomery to June 2, 2019? I heard a no. We don’t have unanimous consent.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Daniel Colin Parkinson, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Daniel Colin Parkinson to June 2, 2019? I heard a no.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Marc J. Gomes, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Marc J. Gomes to June 2, 2019? I heard a no.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Paul Allen Sweet, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Can you say the name again, Mr. Chair?

The Chair (Mr. John Vanthof): Sure: Paul Allen Sweet. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Paul Allen Sweet to June 2, 2019? I heard a no.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Kraymr J.V. Grenke, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Kraymr J.V. Grenke to June 2, 2019? Once again, I heard a no.

The deadline to review the intended appointment of Charles Harnick, selected from the March 8, 2019, certificate, is April 7, 2019. Do we have unanimous agreement to extend the deadline to consider the intended appointment of Charles Harnick to June 2, 2019? I heard a no.

Upon that, that concludes our meeting. I’d like to move adjournment. Thank you very much for your time this morning.

The committee adjourned at 0950.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT AGENCIES

Chair / Président

Mr. John Vanthof (Timiskaming–Cochrane ND)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Taras Natyshak (Essex ND)

Mr. Roman Baber (York Centre / York-Centre PC)

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto (Mississauga–Lakeshore PC)

Mrs. Amy Fee (Kitchener South–Hespeler / Kitchener-Sud–Hespeler PC)

Mr. Vincent Ke (Don Valley North / Don Valley-Nord PC)

Ms. Andrea Khanjin (Barrie–Innisfil PC)

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde (Orléans L)

Mr. Taras Natyshak (Essex ND)

Mr. Rick Nicholls (Chatham-Kent–Leamington PC)

Mr. Jeremy Roberts (Ottawa West–Nepean / Ottawa-Ouest–Nepean PC)

Ms. Marit Stiles (Davenport ND)

Mr. John Vanthof (Timiskaming–Cochrane ND)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Jeff Burch (Niagara Centre / Niagara-Centre ND)

Clerk / Greffière

Ms. Jocelyn McCauley

Staff / Personnel

Mr. Andrew McNaught, research officer,
Research Services