Assemblée législative de l'Ontario

Report continued from volume A.

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Private Members’ Public Business

Condominium legislation

Ms. Natalie Pierre: I move that, in the opinion of this House, the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement should continue consultations with stakeholders regarding how to address condo owners’ and managers’ concerns related to safety by investigating issues related to records access in condos that contain personal information while working to maintain the transparency necessary to support good condominium governance and oversight.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): Pursuant to standing order 100, the member has 12 minutes for her presentation.

Ms. Natalie Pierre: Good evening, everyone. I am pleased to rise in the House this evening and speak to my private member’s motion calling for the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement to continue consultations with stakeholders regarding how to address condo owners’ and managers’ safety concerns by investigating issues related to access to condo records that contain personal information, while working to maintain the transparency necessary to support good condominium governance and oversight.

The objective of this motion is to find solutions that will address condo owners’ and directors’ concerns related to their safety while ensuring the smooth operation and good governance of condominium corporations. Currently, under the Condominium Act, 1998, a condo unit owner has the right to request records from the corporation. These records contain a listing of all unit owners, their address for service, which is most likely their home address, and their phone numbers. Under the current legislation, the condominium board of directors must fulfill the request. No reason needs to be provided.

Constituents in my riding of Burlington have approached me with concerns about this requirement, and in the last few years, board members, property managers and condo unit owners have expressed growing and serious concerns about their safety and privacy rights.

That fear became even more real in December 2022 when a condominium owner in Vaughan, Ontario, approached several units in a condominium building, killing five people, including three condo board members. One other person was injured.

As we approach the second anniversary of this tragedy, we are reminded that protections for condominium owners and elected board members must increase. Condo board positions are unpaid volunteer positions and board members are resigning or not running for re-election because they fear for their personal safety. Speaker, this is a growing concern across our province.

Condominium corporations have a statutory duty to operate and manage the corporation, the units and the common elements. There is also a duty to protect the safety and security of a condominium community.

In recent years, condominium living has become a popular choice for individuals and families seeking affordability and convenience in what we’ve seen to be a very competitive housing environment that has been growing over the past few decades. As our province continues to urbanize, condominiums have become a key part of the housing market, addressing a range of challenges in housing from affordability to land scarcity. Many cities across the greater Toronto and Hamilton area are increasingly vertical. Condominiums have evolved from a niche housing option to a dominant form of residential development in Ontario, particularly in urban areas like Toronto, Ottawa, Mississauga and also in my riding of Burlington.

In 2023, condos represented approximately 30% to 40% of all new housing starts in the province, reflecting their growing popularity. First-time buyers, young professionals and retirees often turn to condos as an alternative to traditional housing.

Condo owners are generally only responsible for the interior of their units and the condo association handles the maintenance of shared spaces. Condo fees, paid by owners, fund the maintenance, repair and operation of shared amenities, things like elevators, hallways and recreation facilities. In Ontario, we have seen these fees climb steadily, often outpacing inflation. This is due to several factors: aging buildings requiring costly repairs and escalating utility and insurance costs.

Increasing condo fees can create financial strain for owners, adding stress and anxiety for existing owners. The consequences are real. The rising cost of living and increasing fees can mean making tough choices about living arrangements, leaving many owners feeling concerned about being priced out of the homes that they worked so very hard to own.

These rising costs and misdirected frustrations sometimes lead to conflict and, in rare but deeply concerning cases, mental health decline and even violence. Recent high-profile incidents underscore how misdirected anger and frustration can boil over, putting volunteer board members—most often condo owners themselves—in harm’s way.

Many condo owners and board members have reported experiencing bullying and harassment at their front doors and are questioning the required disclosure of their personal information. They would like their home addresses or unit numbers to be shielded for their protection and the protection of their loved ones. People should feel safe in their own homes, and the reality is, some people are concerned that their name and address, including their unit number, can be disclosed and shared. Other condo unit owners, who are renting their condo out and may be living at a different address, are concerned their home address is being released to someone they might not even know.

Key stakeholders, including the Association of Condominium Managers of Ontario, the Canadian Condominium Institute and numerous property managers, have come forward to tell the very same story.

Both stakeholders and condo owners are looking for changes. I have met with local Burlington residents and with stakeholders from across the greater Toronto and Hamilton area and have received numerous letters of support for this work from board members, owners and condo management companies from across the province.

I mentioned previously the mass shooting in a Vaughan condo, where five residents were killed. Similar incidents of violence have been reported in other jurisdictions, and unfortunately, harassment is becoming more common in condo communities.

The goal of this motion is to enhance the safety and privacy of owners, directors, property managers and the broader condominium community.

A local stakeholder in my riding representing 13 of Burlington’s downtown condominiums has stated, “I don’t know of any other elected official who has their home address publicized twice a year, it’s unheard of.” This stakeholder is in touch with condo boards across Ontario, and I understand the same issue has been identified in many communities.

Board directors, who are often volunteers, deserve to be able to conduct their duties without fear, harassment, violence or intrusion. Board members are resigning out of fear for their safety and leaving the community without leadership, and fewer residents are putting up their hand to volunteer for these roles, fearing personal risk.

Keeping people safe is a priority for our government, and I am proud of the work that we have done and continue to do to support a safer province. We have advocated for bail reform, and we have enhanced our efforts around bail compliance. We are fighting auto crime and enhancing safety on college and university campuses in the province. This motion is another opportunity to enhance safety for many Ontario residents.

Currently, the population of Ontario is about 16 million people, and about 1.7 million Ontarians live in a condo. They live in 987,302 units, in 12,690 condo corporations, supported by more than 43,000 condo board directors.

We know that the number of condos will increase as communities move forward to meet the demand for all types of housing. People want to live within a community and be able to know and trust their neighbours. Feeling safe is an important part of the foundation for healthy communities, and anything that we can do to support safer condominium communities now will have huge benefits in the future.

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We know that the number of condominium communities will continue to expand, especially in areas around key transportation hubs. In my community of Burlington, we see condo communities being developed around each of the three GO train stations located within the city boundary. The growth of condominiums in Ontario reflects the evolving needs of residents and the changing face of urban and even suburban living.

Given the 1.7 million people currently living in condos and the significant increase of condo residents that we see in the near-term, it’s essential that we pay attention to their concerns that this growth is bringing. It’s essential that we engage and consult with condo owners, with property managers and key stakeholders in developing solutions and opportunities to enhance safety for residents, owners and for board members.

From discussions in my home community, I know that condo residents and stakeholders representing condo associations are ready and eager to engage in discussion. Stakeholders have brought forward several options that will both enhance safety for condo owners as well as provide transparency to support good governance. It’s important that we balance condo owners’ rights to access records with owners’ concerns related to safety and privacy.

Condo living, like any shared community, requires co-operation and respect amongst neighbours. Speaker, safety is a collective responsibility, and we all play a role in fostering a safe environment, no matter where we choose to call home. Safeguarding condo unit owners’ personal information is not just about protecting sensitive data; it is about maintaining trust, privacy and security. By working together to protect this information, condo communities can foster an environment where residents feel secure.

Everyone deserves to feel safe in Ontario, especially in their homes.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): I’m going to go to further debate.

Ms. Jessica Bell: I’d like to congratulate the member for Burlington on this important motion, which I’d like to start by reading out:

“That, in the opinion of this House, the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement should continue consultations with stakeholders regarding how to address condo owners’ and managers’ concerns related to safety by investigating issues related to records access in condos that contain personal information, while working to maintain the transparency necessary to support good condominium governance and oversight.”

It is a long motion, and it matters. I personally know John Di Nino. He was the volunteer condo board president at the Jane Street and Rutherford Road building. He is the president of ATU Canada. That’s how I know him. He’s a leader in the work to build a strong public transit system operated by a unionized workforce. I’ve worked with him for many years.

On December 18, 2022, John Di Nino opened the door of his home to find Francesco Villi, another resident, holding a semi-automatic handgun. This is his quote: “Unequivocally, I was an intended target. He pointed at me and for some reason the gun didn’t go off.” John wasn’t hit, but his wife, Maureen, was. A bullet went through her lip and exited the back of her neck. “Just based on how the bullet exited, it was less than a millimetre from being catastrophic.” Maureen was the lone survivor of five people who were killed that day. After multiple surgeries, it is good to know that Maureen is doing okay. I saw them about two weeks ago at an event, and we are all beyond grateful that she survived and he survived. We also mourn the loss of life—the needless loss of life. Francesco Villi was clearly a troubled man with serious, ongoing mental health issues and ongoing paranoia. He had been harassing condo residents for years. It was certainly a police matter.

Even though this is an example of an extreme incident, I do agree with the member for Burlington, because I speak to the same stakeholders and condo board associations, and they’re telling me very clearly that incidents of assault and harassment are on the rise in condominiums. It speaks to the need to ensure that for condo board members—many of them are volunteers; they’re volunteers, most of them—and property managers their safety is upheld.

I also note, and I see this in the motion as well, that there is a need for balance, because many condo residents need to know who their condo board members are so that these board members are accountable to the residents they serve. So, who gets access to a condo board’s personal information? How do we navigate that? That’s what this issue is really about. The reason why that’s also important, why there’s a need for balance, is because condo board members oversee, in some cases, multi-million-dollar budgets to maintain a building that houses more people than small towns in Ontario. Their decisions affect the lives of residents. They can make residents’ lives very pleasant, and they can make people’s lives a misery. I appreciate that this motion recognizes this balance and calls for a plan.

I have spoken to condo associations about this issue and I, probably like you, have been thinking, “Well, how do we navigate this issue between safety and transparency at the same time?” I was pleased to see a letter from the Canadian Condominium Institute and their joint safety and security legislation committee that put forward practical proposals that navigate that narrow pathway that has to be walked. They include things like, an owner must give a reason for wanting a condo board owner’s address, so that’s not just given out to anyone; they have to have a reason. Number 2, they recommend establishing mandatory harassment and communication policies, so there’s rules on how condo owners can communicate with board members. This means condo board members need to be treated with respect. They also recommended training for board members, including safety and security training. I think these are reasonable requests and I’m going to assume that the Ontario government has received a similar letter and understands that there are practical proposals that people are putting forward that the ministry is looking at considering. I am pleased to see that.

I want to spend the last five minutes of my time talking a little bit about the condominium sector overall. As the member opposite mentioned, there are over 1.7 million people living in condos right now. And while there have been some improvements, and I’ve always been pleased to see progress on that, the condo sector in Ontario remains—quite frankly, it’s not as regulated as it should be. There is inadequate regulation and oversight of developers when they build the building and there is inadequate regulation and oversight over condo property managers and condo boards. In many cases, condo residents have little recourse if they encounter problems within their home. It’s the reality today.

I live in University–Rosedale, so I have Yorkville, I have Bay Street. I get many calls from individuals who live in condos, who are furious, stressed, financially strapped, who are shocked to learn that there is no easy recourse for them if they have issues with 24/7 Airbnb investment properties on their floor or a property manager that refuses to do the necessary maintenance to get a swimming pool operating again or a condo party room available for people to use again. Or they have situations where there is a leak in the unit above them and it has affected their home, yet they somehow are on the hook for repairing their home, sometimes thousands of dollars, even though the leak was not their fault.

They’re told, when they call the regulatory agencies, that there’s very little that can be done. Sometimes these people are forced to go to court, which means they’re spending upwards of $30,000, maybe fixing a $30,000 problem. They’re spending years in the process of doing it, undergoing untold stress, having to hire lawyers or paralegals. It’s not necessary.

The reason why it is so incredibly important that we move forward on effectively regulating the condominium sector is because we know that as we grow as a province, more and more people are going to be living in condos. As I mentioned, they are, in some cases, the size of small towns, housing upwards of 2,000 people. Things can get stressful when you’re living in a vertical way, with 2,000 people above and below you, sharing elevators and common areas. People need to have recourse. There need to be rules. They need to be enforced.

There are a few things that we are recommending. I know that the ministry is currently undergoing a consultation process with some regulations that they are looking at introducing. We are really pleased to see that. I am very hopeful that those regulations are going to be introduced and passed.

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One of the regulations that I think I want to just highlight is a decision to put into force sections of the condo act that were passed in 2015 that haven’t been enforced yet. One that is quite noticeable is some rules that would strengthen protections for buyers of condos by requiring developers to use a standard legal contract and fully disclose accurate information about current and future condo fees. This is a really good one, and I’m really hopeful this gets passed in full. The reason why is because if you’re a first-time homebuyer and you buy a condo based on a diagram—at spec, the building hasn’t been built yet—you could find that, when you move into that home on that first day, the home that you expected and imagined as it was being built is actually different from the one that you actually got. It might be smaller. There might not be all the amenities that you expected, like a pool. The reason is because developers are not required, at this point, to have a standard legal contract, and they’re not required to ensure that the drawings they provide match what the individual actually gets. There are some problems with that, and I’m pleased to see the government recognizes that issue as well.

There are a few other measures that I’d like to highlight that I hope the government opposite can consider as they go through this regulatory review. Strengthen the Condominium Authority Tribunal: The government has already made some movements on that. They are allowing people who have nuisance issues to go to the tribunal to have their disputes resolved in a pretty cheap way—I don’t know what it costs, $100 to apply? It’s very different from going to court—much quicker, much faster. Expand it even further so that it covers the most common issues that residents face. The most common issues that residents face are issues with developers and the building that’s being built’s defects, and also issues with property managers not doing their job properly and not maintaining the building. They’re the key ones. My recommendation is that CAT is expanded to include those matters.

We’re also calling for a strengthening of the two regulatory agencies that are responsible for overseeing condo boards and condo property managers. I’m getting into the weeds here, but it’s the Condominium Authority of Ontario and the Condominium Management Regulatory Authority of Ontario. Those two agencies need to do a better job of regulating the boards and the property managers, and they need to have the enforcement power to hold these board members and property managers to account.

That is the summary of what I have to say today. Thank you for the motion. I’m pleased that you are introducing it. I’m looking forward to seeing it move forward into legislation in future bills.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Ms. Laura Smith: It’s my pleasure to rise today and speak in support of the motion to safeguard Ontario condominium owners brought forward by my colleague the member from Burlington, and in support of better safety for our condominium owners who serve on their condominium boards. As the representative of Thornhill, members in our community sadly witnessed up close the kind of extreme circumstances that can manifest in condominium living environments. A tragic mass shooting that occurred at the Vaughan Bellaria Residences in 2022 claimed the lives of five residents, three of whom were confirmed condo board members, and left one individual injured. We continue to remember and honour the lives lost and all of those who mourn them, and the first responders who tended to and investigated this tragedy. This senseless act of violence highlights the importance of ensuring the safety of condominium owners, board directors and members and the broader condominium community.

While many may not be able to change the past, we can listen to the condo owners and the directors as they express concerns around safety and privacy to enhance protections for these groups moving forward. These concerns emerge amidst growing and escalating instances of tension, conflict, harassment, threats and, in the most extreme cases, violence. As my colleagues and those in this room who have provided letters of support have identified, under the current Condominium Act, privacy and safety concerns can be attributed to the ability of any condo owner to access the personal information of the owners and the board of directors, and this includes access to their home addresses. Board members can occupy the unique and vulnerable position of sharing a living space with the residents they represent, which can also pose a significant challenge to establishing and enforcing critical boundaries. This has the potential to raise serious concerns in light of rising conflicts, among other factors.

Condominium boards and directors are often volunteers who donate their time to crucial responsibilities and duties like managing condo affairs, including property maintenance, finances, addressing residents’ complaints and requests, revising and enforcing rules and regulations, and liaising with external services and professionals—the list goes on and on. Most importantly, they represent their fellow residents. And, as with many volunteers across sectors, those who face and take on such voluntary, unpaid positions often become leaders with their communities.

Volunteers in many ways are instrumental in the success and delivery of community services, and in the case of condo boards, their services help to ensure satisfactory living conditions for all. It’s highly concerning to hear of reports that elected board directors, managers and condominium owners are exceedingly stepping down or opting not to volunteer due to valid concerns about their safety and privacy. Action must be taken to mitigate these risks to the safety and privacy of both boards of directors and the owners wherever possible. Everyone deserves to feel comfortable and secure in the spaces where they live and volunteer.

The motion put forward today advocates for continued consultations with stakeholders regarding how to address the serious safety concerns raised by owners and elected boards of directors. It encourages the investigation of issues related to access to condo records containing personal information while also recognizing that these efforts must be balanced with maintaining transparent condominium governance and oversight.

Ultimately, this motion aims to increase the safety and privacy of condo residents and the governing bodies. I recognize that in my own riding of Thornhill, many residents have built diverse and thriving families, homes and communities through condominium living, and the safety of all Ontarians, including the 1.7 million who reside in condos, is a priority of our government. Therefore, it is with great enthusiasm that I offer my support for this motion and for the safeguarding of the condominium community.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I rise today, first, to give my respect and to commend the member for raising this. As she pointed out, there are almost a million people living in condominiums. We have over 12,000 condominium corporations across the province of Ontario. More units continue to be built over time, so we’re going to see that more and more people are going to continue to live there.

When I speak to condominium owners and those who live in condos, they continue to say that they’d like to hear more of their representation. I know that ongoing consultations continue to be held—I’ve held my own—and this is very important, that we do find the balance to continue to give access to those seeking repairs and other things with the needs of security and safety that are obviously very just to look at, so I commend her for doing that.

Since the government and one of their members are raising the issue of condominiums, there is so much that the Auditor General has pointed out within the sector, things that we look at, and I urge the government and I urge its members to continue to give time and respect to those living in condominiums.

As well, as was mentioned by my colleague as well, the Condominium Authority Tribunal—slowly we continue to see more items being added for people to be able to find justice there. When people living in a condominium are seeking justice on an issue, often it’s very expensive. They find themselves in the courts, and both the members making complaints as well as the boards are continuing to pour money into it. So there are many ways, like expanding the authority of the tribunal, and this is something that is being considered.

Again, I’m very happy to be debating this. I’m glad that we’re using time in the House to advance and improve the lives of those living within condominium authorities, and I hope we will continue to see members of this government and all of us working towards improving the lives of people living within condos.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: I’m pleased to stand in support of this motion, which addresses a critical issue for millions of Ontarians living in condominiums. The motion calls for the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement to consult stakeholders on how best to address condo safety concerns by investigating issues related to record access while balancing transparency and personal information protection. As a former condo owner and as a current—I’m part of a freehold, but we still have a condo board—this is really something that’s really important to us as we move forward.

Speaking on behalf of Etobicoke–Lakeshore, we’re just such a growing community with so many different condo units added to our community. Some 64% of the dwellings in our riding of Etobicoke are condominiums, and that is growing. I was talking with our councillor, and there are 70,000 units that could come into the community in the next 20 years, so it is certainly something—when you look to the west of Toronto, you see growing skyscrapers. Well, that’s Humber Bay Shores in the great riding of Etobicoke–Lakeshore.

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There’s vertical growth happening all across Ontario. It is certainly, right now, concentrated in Toronto, but it is growing and moving out to Mississauga and Burlington and Oakville. So any type of information we can share with condo owners and changes we can make for the better are really important—as a condo owner.

There are waterfront high-rises at Humber Bay Shores. We also have mixed-use developments in Mimico, in my area. Those are not the only housing options—there are neighbourhoods, there are homes, and they make a heart of any community. And when you see these communities growing, you see them growing up. If you’re driving down the Queensway in my riding, you’re going to see massive skyscrapers everywhere. Within the next 10, 20 years, that street is going to look totally different.

With this incredible growth come challenges and concerns about safety. When I met with Jim down at Humber Bay Shores—he’s the president of one of our condo associations—some of the questions he was asking me were about the broader safety of condo representatives, as a management team. But it’s not just the safety of the people who sit on these boards, which—it is hard to get people to sit on these boards. It is a volunteer position.

The condo authority has helped, as my colleague across the aisle just stated. They’ve done a really good job of increasing what they do to help out condo owners learning lessons. It might be something that they’re worried about—different-sized animals in the condo; what’s allowed and what’s not; smoking on balconies. So there’s a place for people to go. But we can still certainly look at other areas where we can help out these owners to make sure that if they have broader questions of governance—and make sure that they have accountability.

Residents often express frustration over unclear communication channels with property management and limited access to records that they need to understand how decisions are impacting the safety of where they live. This is their home.

The motion before us addresses a key component of good condominium governance: access to records. While transparency is essential for owners to hold condo boards and management accountable, we must also respect privacy laws and safeguard personal information. Striking that right balance is no small task, but it’s necessary to ensure that there’s safety and there’s trust—because, once again, this is your home.

This motion calls for continued consultation, and that is vital. It acknowledges the diverse voices in this sector—owners, boards, managers and industry professionals—and seeks to bring them all together to find workable solutions.

I’d like to stress here that this motion is about finding workable, common-sense solutions for everyone involved in condo living. These conversations have the potential to help address issues like how to safely manage access to financial documents, security plans or sensitive resident data while still empowering condo owners with the information they need to protect their investments and their well-being.

Our condos are a hefty investment. In Humber Bay Shores, you’re looking at $1 million. It’s not a small investment, so you want to make sure that you’re protected and your family is protected.

This is not an abstract issue. It impacts the daily lives of millions of people. Poor safety practices and lack of governance can lead to real vulnerabilities, from unauthorized building access to mismanagement of funds that are critical for maintaining secure environments. For the residents of Etobicoke–Lakeshore and indeed the communities across Ontario experiencing condo growth, addressing this issue is not optional; it is essential.

I thank the member for Burlington for bringing this motion forward.

Furthermore, as condos become an even more prominent housing solution across the province, we must set a standard for good management practices.

By supporting this motion, we are not just addressing immediate concerns; we are laying the groundwork for a sustainable, well-regulated condominium sector that prioritizes safety, transparency and resident trust.

I urge my colleagues to support this motion.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Mr. Andrew Dowie: With the time that’s remaining, I just want to show my lack of understanding of the condo areas—however, I have certainly been informed by my constituents. Jerry Dupuis was a constituent of mine—he passed away earlier this year—but he approached me with a very difficult circumstance involving his condo board. He was actually on the board himself and I could really get the sense of how these interpersonal conversations can go between board members and the owners, and that it spirals out of control when there are disputes.

I understand totally what happened in Vaughan. When I was on Tecumseh town council, I had a colleague—his name was Mike Rohrer. He worked here at Queen’s Park in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and our addresses were actually published on the Internet—so anyone could know where we lived—as members of municipal council. Somebody actually walked into his house and started yelling at him when he was having dinner with his family, right in his kitchen. After that, the town took off our addresses from the website.

Ultimately, when people know where you live, there’s a sense of safety and security that is now being risked. Vaughan was a tragedy that was absolutely horrible, and it really demonstrates the risks that people who volunteer to do better for governance and making difficult decisions have to run into. And so, volunteers who sit on these boards at condo buildings truly need some protections and to have a sense that they are not vulnerable to those that wish to cause harm.

And with the couple of seconds left, I want to say thank you to John Recker, one of my friends who gave a letter in support of this motion. I’ll leave it there.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): I’ll go back to the member for Burlington for a two-minute reply.

Ms. Natalie Pierre: Thank you to my colleagues for their remarks. As we continue to embrace condo living as a part of Ontario’s housing strategy, we need to ensure that these condominium communities are built not only on strong foundations of concrete and steel, but on principles of trust and respect for personal privacy. I know all MPPs in this House are committed to safety in their communities. It is important that we address concerns identified by condo owners, managers and board members to support healthy communities now and in the future.

The goal of this motion, again, is to find solutions that address concerns related to safety while balancing those with good governance and smooth operation of condominium communities. We continue to hear from more and more condo owners and board members who have experienced bullying and harassment at their front doors, and in an age where information is as valuable as currency, securing condo owners’ information is necessary. We need to specify who can access records, under what circumstances, and with safeguards in place to ensure that everyone’s privacy is protected.

It’s vital that we continue to engage condo owners and key stakeholders in developing solutions. Consultation and engagement are crucial to coming forward with opportunities that will enhance safety for everyone. That’s why the motion speaks to consultation as the next immediate step.

Now is the time to act. People need to feel safe in their homes; it’s a basic need and one that we need to address.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): The time provided for private members’ public business has expired.

Ms. Pierre has moved private member’s notice of motion number 135. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I declare the motion carried.

Motion agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): All matters related to private members’ public business having been completed, we will now proceed to adjournment of debate.

Pursuant to standing order 36, the question that this House do now adjourn is deemed to have been made.

Adjournment Debate

Government advertising

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): The member for Ottawa South has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Minister of Finance. The member has up to five minutes to debate the matter, and the parliamentary assistant may reply for up to five minutes.

Mr. John Fraser: I’m glad to have this opportunity to express my dissatisfaction with the government’s answer to the question I asked the other day.

All of us know, if you watch prime-time sports on TV—the Grey Cup, the Leafs, the Raptors, basically anything—you are hit over the head with a taxpayer-funded ad from the Conservative government telling you just how rosy things here are in Ontario.

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The amount of money that the government is spending—of taxpayer dollars—on these ads is obscene: millions and millions and millions of dollars, all while people are just trying to get by. Last year, the government spent—for the first in this series of ads, alone—$8 million. And I am confident in saying that they’re spending at least twice as much as that right now.

We’ve all seen them so much we can probably repeat them verbatim. The new ones start this way: “Have you heard? There’s a place where it’s all happening.” And then the government goes on to paint a picture to tell you their story and ignore yours, the story of Ontario families. The ad touts economic growth but leaves out the fact that we lost 28,000 construction jobs last year and 8,000 manufacturing jobs, that business confidence is at an all-time low here in Ontario and that housing starts are down 18%. Here are the other things it doesn’t tell you: 2.5 million Ontarians don’t have a family doctor; 11,000 died on a wait-list last year; and hallway health care is the worst it’s ever been.

Why are they doing all of this advertising? It’s because the Premier wants to call an election early—an election for him and not for you. He’s spending the money for himself and not for Ontario families. Government advertising—it should help you; it should direct you. It should tell you about programs and how to access them, like telling you where you can find a family doctor or where to apply for a grant or help you find child care. Instead, the Premier wants to tell you his version of the story—and ignore yours—instead of helping you with your story and your reality. He doesn’t want to talk about the reality that most families are facing. It’s harder for everyone: pay the rent, pay the mortgage, put food on the table, buy your kids clothes, find a family doctor.

Here’s what the Conservative campaign manager, Kory Teneycke, said on a recent podcast. I picked this up in the Trillium last Friday, and he spoke about the power of government-paid advertising and how Justin Trudeau should do it. This was his advice, and he’s quite proud of his advice. He said here, “Well, I don’t think you would see the Ontario PC Party where it is in the polls if it wasn’t out telling its own story in a positive way using government advertising, using government money, using hard-earned taxpayer dollars.”

He also says in the same podcast—it’s quite revealing; I’m glad he’s being so open and honest about it—that the party in power should spend 10 times as much—10 times as much—in taxpayer dollars than it does of its own money on these ads. Government money is not the Premier’s money; it’s not our money. It has to be used for a public good. Telling your side of the story, painting a rosy picture while people are struggling, that’s just wrong.

Here are a couple of questions: How much did the ads cost? I know it cost $4 million just to make the last ad, and you spent another $4 million producing it. How much did they cost? Who makes the ad? Who bought the ad? Who’s selling you the ad? Are they the same people who are doing your PC Party advertising? That’s a good question.

And the last question I have is, how does the Premier of Ontario justify spending millions and millions of dollars on this self-congratulatory ad when almost 100,000 people in his own backyard, in Etobicoke, don’t have a family doctor?

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): I recognize the parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Finance to respond.

Mr. Dave Smith: As I was listening to the member opposite, I thought back to a story I was told about Sir John A. Macdonald in 1863, when, giving a speech, he vomited, and what he said afterwards was, “I get sick sometimes not because of drink or any other cause, except that I am forced to listen to the ranting of my honourable opponent.”

Really, when you think about that, it’s very fitting today, because what we’re doing is we’re using legislation that was written by the Liberals, passed when that member was a member of the government, and I find it rather ironic now that that member, who voted in favour of the legislation that says the government can do this, opposes the government telling the people of Ontario what has been done and what is positive. When we look at it, one of the things that we’re talking about in it, in all of the ads that we do—he’s correct—are the positive things that have happened in Ontario.

Under the leadership of the former Liberal government, we saw 300,000 manufacturing jobs leave the province. That is not in dispute. That is a fact. And what we know is that last year, Ontario had more manufacturing jobs created than all 50 US states combined. We know that we, as a government, have received seven straight clean audit opinions from the Auditor General, something that the previous Liberal government cannot talk about because they didn’t receive clean audits from the Auditor General. In fact, there are a number of times where they missed dates and were not effective.

We are proud of what we have done in Ontario, and we think that the people of Ontario are also proud of that. Because we know that we’ve invested $28 million in transit—transit that was not being invested in by the previous government. We know that we are building $70 billion worth of transit right now in Ontario. We know that the previous party, when they were in government, left municipalities underfunded and failed to support them for infrastructure needs. Things that we have been doing have made a positive difference on it. We know that because of policies that were put in place—the electrical policy, for example, forced GM to leave Oshawa because it was too expensive for that manufacturing plant to operate. What have we done? We’ve had an electric vehicle strategy that has brought General Motors back to Oshawa. It is a good-news story to talk about. It is something that we should be proud of.

One of the things that the member opposite seems to forget is that everyone is listening to this, so when Honda is looking at a jurisdiction that they want to bring electric vehicles to and they see that Ontario is doing good things, they look to Ontario. That’s why we have an expansion in the Alliston area for Honda.

We know that because of policies that the Liberals put in place, electricity rates rose from the lowest in North America in 2003 to the highest in North America in 2018—a 300% increase. We know the changes that we made on the electrical side have stopped those increases and made it so that we are competitive once again in it.

All of those things have brought industry back to Ontario, so it is not inappropriate for us to stand up and say publicly that Ontario is open for business, that Ontario is doing the things they need to attract business back to Ontario. Because every single company out there is looking to Ontario to see what the leader in North America is doing.

Our plan is working because you’re seeing that investment, over $48 billion in the electric vehicle market alone. It is not inappropriate for Ontario to be boasting to the rest of the world about what we’re doing.

The Acting Speaker (M^me Lucille Collard): There being no further matters to debate, pursuant to standing order 36(c), I deem the motion to adjourn to be carried.

This House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 9 a.m. on Wednesday, November 20.

The House adjourned at 1850.