CONTENTS
Monday 11 April 1994
Subcommittee report
STANDING COMMITTEE ON RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
*Chair / Président: Huget, Bob (Sarnia ND)
*Vice-Chair / Vice-Président: Cooper, Mike (Kitchener-Wilmot ND)
Conway, Sean G. (Renfrew North/-Nord L)
*Fawcett, Joan M. (Northumberland L)
Jordan, Leo (Lanark-Renfrew PC)
Klopp, Paul (Huron ND)
Murdock, Sharon (Sudbury ND)
Offer, Steven (Mississauga North/-Nord L)
Turnbull, David (York Mills PC)
*Waters, Daniel (Muskoka-Georgian Bay ND)
*Wilson, Gary (Kingston and The Islands/Kingston et Les Îles ND)
Wood, Len (Cochrane North/-Nord ND)
*In attendance / présents
Substitutions present / Membres remplaçants présents:
Daigeler, Hans (Nepean L) for Mr Conway
Grandmaître, Bernard (Ottawa East/-Est L) for Mr Offer
Hayes, Pat (Essex-Kent ND) for Ms Murdock
Hope, Randy R. (Chatham-Kent ND) for Mr Wood
Johnson, David (Don Mills PC) for Mr Turnbull
White, Drummond (Durham Centre ND) for Mr Klopp
Clerk / Greffière: Manikel, Tannis
Staff / Personnel: Richmond, Jerry, research officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 1726 in committee room 1.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
The Chair (Mr Bob Huget): If we could come to order. We'll wait for Mr Johnson.
"The subcommittee met this afternoon to discuss the organization of hearings on Bill 143. The subcommittee recommends the following:
"(1) The committee meet on Wednesday, April 13, from 3:30 pm (approximate) to 6 pm. The minister's opening statement and the opposition critics' opening statements will be limited to 20 minutes each including questions. The remaining portion of that time to 6 pm will be for the ministry staff technical briefing and questions by the committee.
"(2) Presentations will be limited to 20 minutes each.
"(3) The committee will meet in Ottawa on Friday, April 15, from 9 am until 12 noon and 1:30 pm to 6 pm and on Saturday, April 16, from 9 am to 1 pm.
"(4) The subcommittee agreed on the list of witnesses who had contacted the clerk by 3:30 pm today. This list of witnesses will be invited to appear in Ottawa. Any witnesses remaining on that list who cannot be accommodated in Ottawa will be invited to appear in Toronto on Monday, April 18.
"(5) The separate and public French-language school boards will also be invited to appear.
"(6) The clerk will advise all new callers that an oral presentation may not be possible and request a written submission.
"(7) The committee will request to meet in room 151 on Monday, April 18, 1994, only to hear any remaining witnesses.
"(8) The committee will meet for clause-by-clause consideration of the bill on Wednesday, April 20, from 10 am until 12 noon, and after routine proceedings to 6 pm in committee room 1.
"(9) The research office will prepare as complete as possible a summary of the oral submissions presented.
"(10) The committee will advertise in the Ottawa Citizen and Le Droit advising that written submissions may be submitted to the committee."
Do I have a motion to adopt the subcommittee's report? Mr Cooper?
Mr Mike Cooper (Kitchener-Wilmot): I'll move it so we can get to the discussion. So moved.
Mr Bernard Grandmaître (Ottawa East): Numbers 4 and 5: Can we make a commitment today that the two school boards would be -- well, they will be invited tomorrow morning, but to give them an opportunity to prepare themselves, why can't we agree today that they will appear before the committee on April 18?
The Chair: You're moving an amendment then to number 5, adding that the French-language school boards will be invited to appear on Monday, April 18?
Mr Grandmaître: Yes, sir.
The Chair: That's a motion then. Discussion?
Mr Grandmaître: It's assumed that it's in Toronto, Mr Chair?
The Chair: That's correct. Discussion?
Mr Cooper: I think what we're doing there is we're taking some flexibility away, because if we do get through the total list for Ottawa and there's still time left, it'd probably be more convenient for them to meet in Ottawa than come and give their presentation. To tie it down to the Monday seems a little unreasonable when they could possibly present in Ottawa, if we could make it through the list.
Mr Grandmaître: I did this to accommodate more people in Ottawa.
Mr Hans Daigeler (Nepean): If there's time available.
Mr Grandmaître: I know.
The Chair: Further discussion?
Mr Daigeler: Not on this particular amendment.
The Chair: If you don't mind, Mr Daigeler. Mr Johnson, in anticipation of your participation, I assume it is on Mr Grandmaître's amendment.
Mr David Johnson (Don Mills): Yes. While I appreciate what Mr Grandmaître is trying to accommodate, particularly the two French schools, I thought that, as Mr Cooper has indicated, during our discussions we were going to use some flexibility. If we could incorporate them in, either on Friday or Saturday, then we would do that, but if not, then certainly on the Monday, as his amendment indicates, we would fit them in then.
My suspicion is, if we just leave it the way it is, we can hopefully accommodate them while we're down there, and if not, that certainly there's flexibility to arrange them on the Monday, just with the way it is. Frankly, I think the way it is is probably adequate.
The Chair: Further discussion? None? All those in favour of Mr Grandmaître's amendment, please indicate. All those opposed? The amendment is lost.
Mr Daigeler: Frankly, in view of what the subcommittee had to work with, I guess it came up with what's possible. I don't really think that the public is going to be overly excited to have essentially a day and a half, but seeing that we have to have clause-by-clause and then report back on the 25th, I guess the subcommittee had no choice but to put forward what it has.
In particular, I feel bad that the public, unless they've really followed things on the fourth page in the Ottawa Citizen, may not know that these hearings are going to take place and that they have an opportunity. It's going to be very difficult for them to still be part of the hearings on Friday and Saturday. Anyway, I guess these are the limitations when you have two weeks to do this work.
One question I did have is, did the subcommittee have any comments at all on the location of the hearings?
The Chair: No, not beyond Ottawa, Mr Daigeler, we have not. We're in the process of trying to get a location that's suitable.
Mr Daigeler: I'd just like to put on the record that I would hope that you look at the regional headquarters. I think that would be a good choice. They have, first of all, a good location. I had an opportunity to speak with representatives of the region on the weekend and they would make every effort to accommodate us.
Mr Grandmaître: And they're in favour of the bill.
Mr Daigeler: The regional headquarters is kind of neutral ground, so I would suggest that. Normally the committees meet in the Delta Hotel, but --
The Chair: The issue that we're still trying to finalize is suitable accommodation that will not only allow ourselves and the staff to stay overnight but also to hold hearings during the day. We're in the process of trying to work that out.
Mr Daigeler: As I say, all of this could be done at the regional headquarters. I'm simply putting forward my wish that that be clearly investigated.
The Chair: And I trust they wouldn't mind if we sleep in the regional headquarters as well.
Mr Daigeler: I think you can sleep in any of the hotels within walking distance of regional headquarters.
The Chair: We'll take your suggestion under advisement. The clerk is following normal procedure in terms of arranging accommodation and meeting rooms.
Mr Grandmaître: We pay enough taxes that we could sleep there.
Mr David Johnson: I was wondering, the Ottawa Sun, you didn't mention that in terms of the newspapers -- the Citizen and Le Droit. Is the Sun not a paper you normally advertise in?
The Chair: The agency provided the names of the Ottawa Citizen and Le Droit.
Mr David Johnson: The who? The agency?
The Chair: Yes. We have an agency that we deal with in terms of advertising, whether it's with dailies or weeklies, and those were the two names that the agency put forward. Those are the only ones, we understood, according to the agency, that it recommended.
Mr David Johnson: Sounds like the FBI.
Mr Daigeler: Clearly it would have to be the Sun as well. There's just no question. With the community newspapers it's different because they don't publish every day, but certainly all dailies have to --
The Chair: If it's agreed by the committee that we include the Ottawa Sun, then we will do so by unanimous consent. Agreed? The Ottawa Sun will be contacted.
Mr Cooper: Just for correctness, in number 8 I think we should eliminate "to 6 pm," because of the order from the House where we have to finish up the clause-by-clause that day, the motion in the House. We'd have to eliminate the 6 pm, I believe.
The Chair: Mr Cooper has moved to delete "to 6 pm." Any further discussion? Those in favour of Mr Cooper's amendment please indicate. Those opposed? The amendment is carried.
Further discussion? I hear noise on that side of the room. Did somebody wish to address the Chair?
Mr Randy R. Hope (Chatham-Kent): What are you advertising? Because I was reading number 4 and it says the list is already done today.
The Chair: There's a standard advertising form, which I won't read into the record, but it's here. It identifies what Bill 143 is, the purpose of the bill etc, and gives the public the hearing dates that we'll be in Ottawa and also advises them they can submit written submissions to the committee clerk at the address that's indicated on the form by Tuesday, April 19, 1994.
Mr Hope: It's only written submissions?
The Chair: That's correct. Further discussion?
Mr Cooper has moved adoption of the subcommittee report. All those in favour please indicate.
Mr Cooper: As amended.
The Chair: As amended. All those opposed? The motion is carried.
We are then adjourned until Wednesday, April 13, at approximately 3:30 pm.
The committee adjourned at 1739.