The committee met at 0900 in room 151 and by video conference.

Committee business

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): Good morning, honourable members. In the absence of the Chair and Vice-Chair, it is my duty to call upon you to elect an Acting Chair. Are there any nominations? Madame Gélinas.

M^me France Gélinas: Good morning. I would like to nominate MPP Peter Tabuns as Chair for this morning.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): Does the member accept the nomination?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: I do.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): Are there any further nominations? There being no further nominations, I declare the nominations closed and MPP Tabuns elected Acting Chair of the committee.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Thank you all for your confidence. I’m going to go through the pre-meeting script before we go into the main business for today’s meeting.

Some members and staff will be present on site at the Legislative Assembly while others will be participating through Zoom. So that everyone is aware, the following members are present in the room: MPP Hogarth. I’ll now conduct an attendance check of the members participating remotely. I will start with MPP Toby Barrett. If you’d identify yourself and confirm your location in Ontario.

Mr. Toby Barrett: Good morning, everybody. Toby Barrett, MPP, present in Port Dover, Ontario.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): MPP Stephen Blais.

Mr. Stephen Blais: Stephen Blais in Orléans, Ontario.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): MPP Crawford.

Mr. Stephen Crawford: Good morning, Chair. It’s MPP Stephen Crawford. I’m here in Toronto.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): MPP Cuzzetto. No? Okay. We’re having connection problems there.

MPP Gélinas.

M^me France Gélinas: Good morning, everyone. I’m MPP France Gélinas, and I’m in beautiful Nickel Belt.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): MPP Kramp.

Mr. Daryl Kramp: Good morning, everyone. Daryl Kramp, present here in Madoc, Ontario.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): MPP Parsa.

Mr. Michael Parsa: Good morning, Chair. Michael Parsa here. I am in Richmond Hill, Ontario.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): And MPP Martin: Good morning.

Mrs. Robin Martin: Good morning, Chair. It’s MPP Martin. I’m here at Queen’s Park.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Okay. I think we’ve got all the MPPs covered. I want to say hello to the Auditor General, research staff et al. Thank you very much for being here.

I assume I haven’t missed any members. We’re also joined by Erica Simmons from legislative research, as well as staff from broadcast and recording.

There will be a chat running in Zoom for those of you participating by video, and it will allow you to send—ahem. Sorry, folks. In these days, a dry throat can sound alarming. Please only use the chat for committee-related business.

For those of you participating in person or remotely, if you would like to make a point of order or if you’d like to be recognized to speak, please physically raise your hand to get the attention of the Chair. For the Zoom participants, please be aware that broadcast and recording will be controlling your microphones. Depending on the version of Zoom you’re using, you may have been asked to grant permission to be unmuted when you joined. If you accepted, the broadcast operator will be able to activate your microphone once I recognize you. Participants using older versions of Zoom may still get a request to unmute their microphone before they’re able to speak.

I don’t think we have anyone calling in to the studio.

If you get accidentally disconnected, please try to rejoin the meeting with the information you used to join initially. If you’re unable to rejoin, please contact Andrew Kleiman from technical services. His email was included in the email that contained the Zoom link for this meeting.

If we’re required to recess due to technical difficulties, please keep the device you’re using to participate close at hand and wait for further instructions via email from the Clerk.

That’s the pre-meeting. I don’t see any new members have joined us since I started.

Our first item of business is a motion that was filed by MPP Gélinas. MPP Gélinas, you have the floor.

M^me France Gélinas: I will be very brief, Chair. I wish to withdraw my motion.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): It is withdrawn. Thank you.

M^me France Gélinas: While I have the floor, can I ask a question? I know that the House has agreed for us to meet during constituency week.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Yes.

M^me France Gélinas: I was wondering if now would be a good time to look at our schedule for that week, if we now have an extra week to sit, and what we would like to look at, or should we do this after we go through this morning’s agenda?

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Well, if you want to move a motion, you’re welcome to. I have Ms. Hogarth as well.

M^me France Gélinas: Okay. Well, I just wanted to put it out to my colleagues to see if they’re open to having the discussion. If Ms. Hogarth wants to go, I’m willing to listen to what she has to say.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Okay. Very well. Ms. Hogarth.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, MPP Gélinas. I have a motion on the floor which pertains to constituency week. It’s motion number 2. Are we ready to go ahead with that, or are we still—

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): You can read it into the record.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: The whole thing?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): Yes.

Ms. Christine Hogarth: All right.

I move that the meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to consider the value-for-money audit, Virtual Care: Use of Communication Technologies for Patient Care (2020), scheduled for Wednesday, May 12, 2021, be rescheduled for Wednesday, May 26, 2021; and

That on Wednesday, May 26, 2021, the committee meet for a closed session briefing with the Auditor General from 1 p.m. until 2:15 p.m. and for public hearings from 2:30 p.m. until 5 p.m., with the last 15 minutes set aside for report-writing in closed session; and

That this committee’s meeting to consider the value-for-money audit, Blood Management and Safety (2020), scheduled for Wednesday, May 19, 2021, be rescheduled for Thursday, May 27, 2021; and

That on Thursday, May 27, 2021, the committee meet for a closed session briefing with the Auditor General from 1 p.m. until 2:15 p.m. and for public hearings from 2:30 p.m. until 5 p.m., with the last 15 minutes set aside for report-writing in closed session.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Is there any debate on the motion, which I gather is about to be posted on the screen? And it is. Is there any debate? Madame Gélinas.

M^me France Gélinas: Do I take from this motion that we would not meet in the morning?

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Ms. Hogarth?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: That is correct. It’s just timing. Some of the officials, our deputy minister—there are many meetings scheduled at the same time, so we just want to accommodate their schedules.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Okay. Thank you.

M^me France Gélinas: And if—

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Go on, finish, and then I go to MPP Parsa.

M^me France Gélinas: Okay. I’m just curious. If we move the value-for-money audit from the 12th to the 26th, then the question is, what do we do on the 12th?

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Ms. Hogarth, did you want to speak to that?

Ms. Christine Hogarth: My motion doesn’t pertain to the 12th. This is moving just to accommodate their schedules for a different day.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Fine. Thank you. That’s the motion we have on the floor. If someone wants to address the 12th separately, they can.

With that, I’ll go to MPP Parsa.

Mr. Michael Parsa: No, I’m good, Chair. MPP Hogarth just addressed it. Thank you.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Fine. Is there any further debate on the motion before us?

Interjection.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): I’m sorry?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): If I may.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): You may.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Christopher Tyrell): So in terms of the 12th and the 19th, the public hearings would no longer be scheduled for those dates. There may be other committee business that could be taken up on those days that doesn’t pertain to the Ministry of Health and the officials. There may be report-writing that can be done.

I received an email about the upcoming Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees conference scheduled for, I believe, early September, so we can have a discussion surrounding that. There may be other business that the committee can do on those two days.

0910

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Thank you, Clerk. Is there further debate on MPP Hogarth’s motion? I see none. We’ll go to a vote. All those in favour of MPP Hogarth’s motion, please indicate by raising your hand. All right, you can lower your hand. All those opposed, please raise your hand. The motion is carried. Thank you, MPP Hogarth.

It’s been noted to me that we have another member who’s joined. MPP Bell, would you please confirm your identity and your location in Ontario?

Ms. Jessica Bell: This is Jessica Bell. I’m in Toronto.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Thank you very much.

We have no other business in open session. We will now go to closed session for report writing on chapter 2. Clerk, I gather we have some things that have to be done to go into closed session?

Interjection.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Right, one of those. Going into closed—oh, Madame Gélinas?

M^me France Gélinas: I have no problem moving what was scheduled to be on the 12th and on the 19th to the 26th. The Clerk mentioned that there could be some report writing or discussion about the conference coming up that we could use for the 12th and the 19th. Right now, as we stand, I think we could have a better use of our time on the 12th and the 19th. I’m not ready with a motion this morning because I did not know this motion was coming, but I would like my colleagues to think about how we could best use our time on the 12th and the 19th as a committee so that we get as much done as possible before we rise for the summer. I’m just putting it out there. Put your thinking hat on.

If there are some of the audits—the auditor had mentioned before that we are able to go through more than just the six that we have identified so far. We could maybe get a briefing on—each party chooses one. The Conservatives would pick one and the NDP would pick one that we could look at on the 12th or the 19th. Anyway, put your thinking cap on so that we make good use of our time on the 12th and the 19th.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Are you asking, Madame Gélinas, for a subcommittee meeting, then?

M^me France Gélinas: I have no idea. Is this how those things are done?

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Yes.

M^me France Gélinas: Sure.

The Acting Chair (Mr. Peter Tabuns): Requested. Okay. I assume, then, Clerk, that you will convene that subcommittee meeting? All right. That is in motion.

With that, we will now leave the public session and go to the closed session.

The committee continued in closed session at 0913.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

Chair / Président

Mr. Taras Natyshak (Essex ND)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Présidente

M^me France Gélinas (Nickel Belt ND)

Mr. Deepak Anand (Mississauga–Malton PC)

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand–Norfolk PC)

Ms. Jessica Bell (University–Rosedale ND)

Mr. Stephen Blais (Orléans L)

Mr. Stephen Crawford (Oakville PC)

Mr. Rudy Cuzzetto (Mississauga–Lakeshore PC)

M^me France Gélinas (Nickel Belt ND)

Ms. Christine Hogarth (Etobicoke–Lakeshore PC)

Mr. Daryl Kramp (Hastings–Lennox and Addington PC)

Mr. Taras Natyshak (Essex ND)

Mr. Michael Parsa (Aurora–Oak Ridges–Richmond Hill PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mrs. Robin Martin (Eglinton–Lawrence PC)

Mr. Peter Tabuns (Toronto–Danforth ND)

Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes

Ms. Bonnie Lysyk, Auditor General

Clerk / Greffier

Mr. Christopher Tyrell

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Erica Simmons, research officer,
Research Services