Assemblée législative de l'Ontario

The committee met at 1306 in committee room 1.

Election of Chair

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Good afternoon. Honourable members, it is my duty to call upon you to elect a Chair. Nominations, please.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Mr. Clerk, I nominate MPP Toby Barrett as Chair of the committee.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Mr. Balkissoon nominates Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Barrett, do you accept the nomination?

Mr. Toby Barrett: I thank my nominator, and I would be pleased to accept.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): All right. Are there any further nominations?

Seeing no further nominations, the nominations are closed. Mr. Barrett, you are duly elected as Chair of the committee. Please step forward.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Nobody escorts me up?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): There’s no escort.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I would just like to say thank you again. Before we go to the next order of business, I’ll just mention that this is our committee. I’ll try and do my best to make sure it’s productive, that we get a lot done and everybody has a say. I’ve sat on committees for many, many years. We all like to contribute, especially if it’s something very, very important for our book of business.

Just given what’s going on today, if there are any safety or security issues, the gavel will come down real fast and then we’d go out the windows or the door or whatever is appropriate.

Ms. Soo Wong: The window? Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): That includes fire alarms—we’re out the door.

Please feel free to whisper in my ear or give me a note or let me know if I’m not performing my duties or if there’s anything I should be doing.

Election of Vice-Chair

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Our next order of business is election of a Vice-Chair. I would ask for a motion.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Chair, I would like to nominate MPP Garfield Dunlop as Vice-Chair.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Thank you.

Interjections.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: I told you: I’m everywhere, and I’m doing you a big one.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): All right. Just for the record, Mr. Balkissoon has nominated Mr. Dunlop as Vice-Chair.

Garfield, did I hear a response from you?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: Yes. I’m honoured to accept the position.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Is it the pleasure of the committee that the motion carry? Carried.

Appointment of subcommittee

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Next order of business: appointment of the subcommittee on committee business.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Ms. McMahon’s got the motion.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Sure. Priorities. Coffee first.

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: Coffee first, Mr. Chair.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Ms. McMahon, you have a motion?

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do. On the appointment of a subcommittee on committee business, I have a motion to be moved in committee.

I move that a subcommittee on committee business be appointed to meet from time to time at the call of the Chair, or at the request of any member thereof, to consider and report to the committee on the business of the committee;

That the presence of all members of the subcommittee is necessary to constitute a meeting; and

That the subcommittee be composed of the following members: the Chair as Chair, Ms. Wong, Ms. Scott and Mr. Singh; and

That substitution be permitted on the subcommittee.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): We have a motion before us. Is there any discussion with respect to membership of the subcommittee? All in favour? Carried.

Assignment of ministries

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Yes, Ms. Wong.

Ms. Soo Wong: Mr. Chair, I have a motion before the committee—

Interjection.

Ms. Soo Wong: Oh, we already did that?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: He’s going to get to it.

Ms. Soo Wong: He’s going to get to it? Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): If we could defer that, I do wish to go to the next—

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, I’d like to put a motion in front of the committee.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): As with Ms. Wong, I would like to go to the last item of business.

Mr. Randy Hillier: And the last item of business—

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): The last item of business: draft committee report pursuant to standing order 111(b).

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): I’d like to explain. Give me a chance to—

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I would like to ask the Clerk to tell us a bit more. I think we’ve received some paper on this.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Basically, what we have here is—as I was saying, this committee sets out which ministries are assigned to which policy field committees for the purpose of a 111 study. Generally, what we do is, we just use the last report that was carried, and the only changes that my office will make are based on if there are ministry name changes or responsibility movement within the different ministries.

Before you, you have a draft report. There was a memo sent out with the rationale for the changes. What the committee has to determine now is if it would like to adopt that report as written or if it would like to make any changes to it. That’s what you are doing at this point in time.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Further to this agenda item? Ms. Wong.

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that, pursuant to standing order 111(b), the Ministry of Energy be assigned to the Standing Committee on Justice Policy—and I have a copy of my motion.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): We can distribute that motion.

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you.

Interjection.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I didn’t hear you, Clerk.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Does Ms. Wong want to—

Ms. Soo Wong: No, it’s self-explanatory.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): All right, then. Do any other members of the committee have any comments? Mr. Hillier.

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like to see that motion. Maybe we could take a 10-minute recess to take a look at what this motion is about so we can understand what the consequences are with it.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Do we need 10 minutes?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes, please.

Ms. Soo Wong: We need five, not 10.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): As I understand it, we can have a recess just before we vote, after discussion, unless there is agreement that we have the recess now. There is a request for a 10-minute recess. Is there agreement? Are we agreed to a 10-minute recess?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Do we have to agree? I thought it’s not debatable.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Standing Order 129(a) says that before you vote on an item you are entitled to, unequivocally, an up to 20-minute recess. However, after that recess, there is no further debate, there is no discussion. It is strictly a vote.

If the members are ready to vote at this time, then Mr. Hillier is entitled to that up to 20-minute recess. However, there is a question on the floor, so to have another question as to a recess on the floor—it would be the agreement of the committee to allow for another recess.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: We agree.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Thank you.

Interjections.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Do you want to do 20? Does that help you better?

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like to just take a few minutes to understand what the consequences are here before we get into the discussion.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Did we agree on five or 10?

Mr. Randy Hillier: There was agreement from the—

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): A five-minute recess: Are we agreed?

Ms. Soo Wong: Yes. Thank you.

The committee recessed from 1315 to 1320.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): If we could reconvene and return to the business at hand.

Ms. Wong, your motion is on the floor.

Ms. Soo Wong: Mr. Chair, I just wanted to remind the committee that the justice committee has been dealing with this particular file, the Ministry of Energy, for a long time, as you know. They have the history, and they continue to do good work on our behalf, and I think it’s only appropriate that that particular ministry be moved to the justice committee so that they can continue this work, because at the end of the day, it’s going to go right back—if not, it’s going to be started again; is that fair for that committee’s hard, hard work for weeks and months? I beg to say that that’s not appropriate.

I also believe that history, because we have new members—just look at our colleagues on this side. There is a significant number of new members to the Legislature, so it’s very appropriate that the Ministry of Energy be moved to the justice committee so that they can continue the good work.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further discussion?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, I’d like to move an amendment to that motion in that it would read—where it says “Ministry of Energy,” it would then be “and the Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure be assigned to the Standing Committee on Justice Policy.”

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): So we probably should circulate that on a piece of paper.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Two of them?

Mr. Randy Hillier: The Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Do members want that in writing?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Sure.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): We’ll take a brief recess.

The committee recessed from 1322 to 1327.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I’ll call the meeting back to order. We now have an amendment to the previous motion. Mr. Hillier, first: any comments on your amendment?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, I moved the amendment by adding the Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure to the motion. As many members on this committee may know, there is an opposition day motion filed with the House and it will be up for discussion and debate at our next opposition day.

The Standing Committee on General Government has a significant number of ministries assigned to it and substantially fewer ministries are assigned to the justice committee. I think it’s important that we have economic development, employment and infrastructure included, and that’s due to the recent information that has become available, that has become known, and more of it is yet to be discussed and knownabout the MaRS project that the government finds itself embroiled in at the present time. Of course, the $224-million loan that is in default to the government is under the authority of the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure, and it would be wise and thoughtful to include that ministry in with justice.

I’d be happy to have any further questions.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further debate on this amendment to the motion? Mr. Balkissoon.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I listened carefully to the comments of my colleague across, and I’m at a loss as to where he’s trying to go with this, because he’s making an assumption that the standing committee on government services cannot do whatever work is necessary on whatever his issue is. The House always has the privilege to redirect something at a point in time when it’s debated and agreed upon.

As the Clerk defined earlier, the list that he’s given us is the list that existed in the past. All he did was change the ministries that now have different affiliations with the various divisions. Unfortunately, I don’t agree with the rationale behind adding the Ministry of Economic Development.

So I’m prepared to support our original motion, and I ask you to take the vote.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Is there any further debate on this amendment? Mr. Hillier.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Sorry—Ms. Scott.

Ms. Laurie Scott: I am a new member of the committee. I know when you did the draft report—is there any way I could get a copy of SO 111? Could I take a minute?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Yes. It should be in your package in front of you. There was a memorandum sent out.

Ms. Laurie Scott: Okay.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I think everybody else has a copy of this.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: We all do.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Further debate? Mr. Hillier.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Although the good member across the way doesn’t see the value in this or thinks that we ought to make changes later on, I’m always of the view that if there are things that need to be done, instead of making a mistake and then going back and correcting it after, just do the right thing in the first place. I think it is exceptionally important that economic development, employment and infrastructure is also included in justice policy.

As I said, MaRS is a breaking story. There have been questions in the House every day about MaRS. There have been stories in the press every day about MaRS. It’s an ongoing subject of significant interest to the public. It will continue to be so. I think the most appropriate place for those discussions about MaRS, as we learn more about the activities there and the loan agreements and the bailout agreements—that we have that place in a structure that is not overburdened or unduly burdened with other House procedures.

The Standing Committee on Justice Policy would be the appropriate place to have the ability to take a look into the actions of the Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure regarding the activities at MaRS and MaRS phase 2.

The other member suggests that this can be accomplished later on, and possibly so. However, he also recognizes that the Liberal members carry a majority of votes on every committee, and whether or not they’ll be instructed to allow that to happen at any other committee down the road, I would be very suspicious. I believe it’s important that this motion be amended as I’ve discussed and that we include it with justice policy.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Further discussion?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Chair, just to correct the member’s misconception of what I said: Every standing committee has the ability to do the work that is defined in standing order 111. So moving one ministry to another one does not, in my opinion, achieve anything at this time. The only reason we made our motion is because there’s ongoing activity, and we wanted to respect that activity and the members who sat on that committee. If general government wishes to do something about MaRS, they’re allowed to do it according to standing order 111.

Again, I don’t see any basis for my colleague’s request. I would say to you, if you wish to put the vote, I cannot support it.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Is there further debate before we consider a vote?

Mr. Randy Hillier: I would like the member to reconsider. I do believe that justice policy is the most appropriate place. It would be a more effective use and give greater openness and transparency, I believe, to the activities of the Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure if they were included in justice policy and allowed those activities to be scrutinized by justice policy.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): We have an amendment before us. Is there any further debate? Are members of the committee ready—

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like to call for a 20-minute recess, please.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Okay.

As I was saying, are the members ready to vote, first of all? Yes. We’re ready to vote, and we have a call for a 20-minute recess.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Thank you.

The committee recessed from 1336 to 1356.

Mr. Vic Dhillon: Trevor, do you have a sub slip for me?

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): I do.

Interjection.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Ms. McMahon at 2 o’clock.

Ms. Eleanor McMahon: Sorry. No one got back to you. My schedule was changed. My apologies—

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): Hold on. I got a sub slip and no one said anything in the first half hour. He is the member.

Interjections.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Committee members—

Interjections.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): You’re still the member till 2, the voting member.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): We have an amendment to the motion before us moved by Mr. Hillier. Maybe I’ll read the amendment: that the motion be amended by adding: “and the Ministry of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure” after “Energy”.

All those in favour of this amendment?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, a recorded vote, please.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Those in favour of this amendment?

Ayes

Hillier, Scott.

Nays

Anderson, Balkissoon, Ballard, McMahon, Wong.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I declare this amendment lost.

We can now move back to debate on Ms. Wong’s original motion. Is there any further debate on the motion? Did you wish me to read that motion? Everybody has it in front of them?

Interjection: Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further debate on the motion before we vote?

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like to move an amendment to the motion. I’d like to amend the motion that’s on the floor so that it would read: “and the Ministry of Research and Innovation”.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Would members of the committee like a copy of this second amendment to the motion?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: No, it’s pretty straightforward.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): All right, then. We would entertain a debate on this second amendment to the motion.

Ms. Soo Wong: He’s amending my motion to add—

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Yes.

Ms. Soo Wong: No.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): The second amendment.

Mr. Hillier, did you have any comments to make on your second amendment?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes. Once again, this centres around the MaRS scandal that is emerging and becoming more well known, but there is still much that is not understood about it. We know that the Ministry of Research and Innovation is funding the interest payments on the $234-million loan to MaRS phase 2 by the Ministry of Infrastructure or Infrastructure Ontario. Although that loan is out there, it is in default from MaRS 2. The Ministry of Research and Innovation is paying the financing costs, the interest costs, on that loan.

We understood last week, through a release from the ministry, that approximately half a million dollars per month is being paid out by the Ministry of Research and Innovation to carry this defaulted mortgage. We understand from the minister that he has capped that at $7.1 million for this year, but it’s important that these details, what’s going on at MaRS and just the extent of the risk that the taxpayers of Ontario are facing, are understood.

I believe justice policy is the most appropriate place to have the emerging MaRS scandal, before the justice committee so that it can be thoughtfully examined, analyzed and evaluated in that indeed the people of Ontario are treated in a very open and transparent fashion and understand all of what has happened at research and innovation regarding the MaRS scandal. If there are further liabilities that the taxpayer is on the hook for through the Ministry of Research and Innovation—and I believe, once again, that justice policy is the best place for research and innovation.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Further debate on the second amendment to this motion? Mr. Balkissoon.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: I listened to my good friend across the way very carefully, and I’ll just remind him what the standing orders read. It says that standing order 111(a) grants the Standing Committee on General Government, the Standing Committee on Justice Policy and the Standing Committee on Social Policy the ability to study “matters relating to the mandate, management, organization or operation” of certain ministries assigned to them.

My good friend does not realize that every standing committee that is mentioned here has equal power. His motion to move one ministry to another committee to another one—I just don’t understand his rationale. Maybe there’s something I don’t understand, but I would actually call the vote. We’re prepared to vote because I can’t support him.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Further debate?

Mr. Randy Hillier: I might remind the member that this is an amendment to a motion put forward by the governing party to move a ministry. How he can speak that it’s inappropriate for an amendment to move a ministry when the amendment is to their own motion to move a ministry—so if it’s good for the goose, it is indeed good for the gander. It is your member—a government member—who tabled the original motion to move a ministry. To think that it is inappropriate for the opposition to do the same thing is not logical and not reasonable.

Again, Chair, I would say that the Ministry of Research and Innovation and this emerging scandal on MaRS phase 2 is best and most appropriately put over to justice policy in that they are best suited to inquire, examine, analyze and evaluate the Ministry of Research and Innovation to find out just what level of risk the taxpayers are subject to or liable for out of the actions of the Ministry of Research and Innovation—with them carrying the interest costs of approximately $500,000 per month, each and every month, which we just became aware of last week.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further debate? Yes, Ms. Scott?

Ms. Laurie Scott: What we have here—and I’m just a new member of the committee—as Mr. Balkissoon has said, is that they have moved a motion, which was done by Ms. Wong, that any committee can look at any ministry at any time. That’s exactly what Mr. Hillier is asking for by adding research and innovation to the original amendment. We’re not breaking any rules, or else we’d be, I think, ruled out of order by the Clerk. We kind of keep in touch to see—it can be complicated at times, but we did have an election on openness and transparency. MaRS was brewing during that election time. The rules were changed; the government changed the rules. Before the election, I’m not sure who was minister at that point, but they changed the regulations so that MaRS could have a loan. Maybe we should have seen that. It’s pretty hard to see where all the regulations are. It was new to the committee when they met before the House resumed. So information is still coming forward, and we in opposition and you as a government, too, have a responsibility to have openness and transparency with the taxpayers and where their money is being spent.

We have a lot of concern, and I think rightly so. This is only a small stack of newspaper articles that have been written just in the last couple of weeks on MaRS, going to the fact of the $224-million loan default for MaRS phase 2, which adds to—let me see—interest on the loan costing taxpayers $450,000 a month, which is a big thing, and the bailout of the U.S.-based developer, Alexandria Real Estate.

People have a lot of questions. We feel research and innovation are involved financially paying the interest on that. It’s appropriate that these questions be asked. It is our right as legislators to say what committee we feel this would be scrutinized the most under. So I don’t think what we’re asking for today is unreasonable. I think we owe it to everyone in the province to find out the best information we can on their behalf.

Certainly we in opposition, and not to not allow him to speak—but both the official opposition, being us, Progressive Conservatives, and the NDP, the third party, have been asking questions in the Legislature from day one, when we got back, about MaRS. So to say that this is not an appropriate thing to be moved over—research and innovation to be added to this amendment—is not right. I think you should have some more debate and engage with us on this amendment that is brought forward.

I have a lot of questions from my constituents at home saying, “We don’t have enough money for our health care services. How is the money being spent by the government?” And when you see waste—gas plant scandals at over $1 billion, you have eHealth, you have Ornge, and now MaRS is blooming—there is a lot of information to be found out. We want to call a lot of people to appear before the Standing Committee on Justice Policy. I think due diligence—you should all agree with us that that would be the appropriate thing to do. I think it would do yourselves credit if you were seen by the public to be examining in more depth into MaRS and to try and justify the insane bailout that you have done, in my opinion. But we are allowing democracy to go forward and want to call for witnesses, and we feel it’s most appropriate at the justice policy committee.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Chair?

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Yes, Mr. Balkissoon?

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: Out of sheer respect that my colleague Laurie Scott has just spoken for the first time, I will just go back to what my colleague said at the beginning. We are only moving the motion that we moved because in the previous session of Parliament, the House made a decision to send the Ministry of Energy issue to justice policy. It was the House that made that decision. The list was exactly the same that was in front of it.

In order to allow that committee to finish its work, out of due respect to all the members who spent a lot of time on that work, we’re making this motion to allow the committee to finish its work. If there is new work, any committee can do that exact work.

That’s the only reason we moved our motion. Otherwise, we would have left the list intact.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Thank you. Further debate on this amendment number 2? Mr. Hillier?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Just to follow up on what the member was talking about—and I guess I should add I’m a little bit surprised that the third party has been silent in these discussions. Hopefully we can get the third party engaged in this discussion as well.

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But I would say that the members talked about the committee in the 40th Parliament, the one previous. Of course, we all know that there were items left that that committee had agreed upon and agreed to: That was the calling of certain witnesses, who had actually also agreed to appear in front of that committee. That agreement has never been satisfied—never been fulfilled.

Actually, I think many people might view that without those witnesses appearing before that committee, it would be prejudicial to their ability to do the work that they started in the 40th Parliament. We’ve not seen any indication, discussion or debate from the government on whether or not they would actually ensure that the desires of that committee were indeed completed.

But I would also like to add, going back to the amendment to the motion: This is about the Ministry of Research and Innovation. It’s about the financial actions and activities of the Ministry of Research and Innovation. Why have they committed to paying the carrying costs, the interest costs—and not insubstantial interest costs—of approximately half a million dollars per month?

I guess I might say to the member, Mr. Balkissoon, if he remembers, in the 40th Parliament, in this same Legislative Assembly committee, we had a discussion about regulations—a motion that had been approved, voted on and adopted by the private bills and regulations committee—that got stalled in the committee in the last Parliament.

Where I’ll take this back to is, we heard very clearly in the estimates committee that the Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure had purposely altered the regulations in 2010 that allowed Infrastructure Ontario, at the time, to provide a mortgage to MaRS phase 2.

Now, I’ll take you back to the motion that was in front of the assembly last session. This is the motion that was approved by the private bills and regulations committee: “That the Standing Committee on Regulations and Private Bills recommend to the Standing Committee on the Legislative Assembly that the standing orders of the House be amended such that any member is permitted during Introduction of Bills to table a motion requesting a review and debate upon the merits of any regulation filed with the registrar of regulations.”

Had that actually been undertaken and completed by the Legislative Assembly committee last session, it would have prevented many of these things from going on and happening that end up being—

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Mr. Hillier, just a comment: Speak to the motion.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes. Anyway, Chair, I think it’s very clear and evident that the research and innovation ministry does belong with justice policy, so I’ll put it forward for further discussion.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further debate? We are debating amendment number 2 to the motion. Any further debate? Are the members ready to vote?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair?

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Mr. Hillier?

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d call for a 20-minute recess, please.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): If members are ready to vote, we will have a 20-minute recess. Before I bang the gavel—I just want to make a brief statement once we’re off Hansard.

The committee recessed from 1415 to 1435.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Amendment number 2 has been made, and we will now vote on amendment number 2.

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, recorded vote, please.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): A recorded vote. Amendment number 2 has been moved by Mr. Hillier.

Ayes

Hillier, Scott.

Nays

Anderson, Balkissoon, Ballard, Dhillon, Wong.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): I declare the amendment lost.

We would now go back to the original motion. I can read it out again quickly, if you wish, a motion from Ms. Wong: “I move that, pursuant to standing order 111(b), the Ministry of Energy be assigned to the Standing Committee on Justice Policy.”

Further debate on that motion? Mr. Hillier.

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like to move an amendment to that motion.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Okay, an amendment to this motion?

Mr. Randy Hillier: That the motion be amended by adding “and the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs” after “Energy.”

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Does anyone need a copy of that?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Sure, yes.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): You would like a copy of that?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes.

Mr. Bas Balkissoon: No, it’s pretty straightforward.

Mr. Randy Hillier: I’d like a copy.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Mr. Hillier has requested a copy. Does anyone else wish for a copy?

Interjections.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Let’s take a short recess.

The committee recessed from 1436 to 1440.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Mr. Hillier has moved that the motion be amended by adding “and the Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs” after “Energy”. Any debate—or a comment on your motion, Mr. Hillier?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Yes. Chair, we know that on Thursday this week, there will be a private member’s motion moved by the member for Kingston and the Islands regarding and requesting an inquiry into the missing and murdered women of aboriginal background. Once again, I think that aboriginal affairs is best suited to justice policy, and I look forward to this government being open and transparent, supporting that private member’s motion on Thursday and allowing the justice policy committee to further enact and implement the motion of the member from Kingston and the Islands, should it be successful on Thursday. I believe justice policy is the best place for aboriginal affairs.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Any further debate? I see debate has concluded. Are members ready to vote on this amendment to the motion?

Mr. Randy Hillier: Chair, I’d like to call for a 20-minute recess, please.

Interjection.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): The Clerk has advised me that, from the time, we do not have 20 minutes left for a full recess, so when I bang the gavel, we go in recess, but that does adjourn this committee. This will be the first order of business, if and when this committee reconvenes.

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Trevor Day): It will, next week.

The Chair (Mr. Toby Barrett): Okay. It does convene next week for sure.

The committee adjourned at 1442.

CONTENTS

Wednesday 22 October 2014

Election of Chair M-1

Election of Vice-Chair M-1

Appointment of subcommittee M-1

Assignment of ministries M-1

STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Chair / Président

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand–Norfolk PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Mr. Granville Anderson (Durham L)

Mr. Bas Balkissoon (Scarborough–Rouge River L)

Mr. Chris Ballard (Newmarket–Aurora L)

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand–Norfolk PC)

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Ms. Eleanor McMahon (Burlington L)

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock PC)

Mr. Jagmeet Singh (Bramalea–Gore–Malton ND)

Ms. Soo Wong (Scarborough–Agincourt L)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Vic Dhillon (Brampton West / Brampton-Ouest L)

Mr. Randy Hillier (Lanark–Frontenac–Lennox and Addington PC)

Also taking part / Autres participants et participantes

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Clerk / Greffier

Mr. Trevor Day

Staff / Personnel

Ms. Heather Webb, research officer,
Research Services