Hansard Transcript 2022-Dec-07 vol. B | Legislative Assembly of Ontario

Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon: They’re en route, so I will point them out when they arrive, but I have two emergency preparedness champions: Kathryn Bakos from the Intact Centre on Climate Adaption at the University of Waterloo, and John MacKenzie, CEO of Toronto and Region Conservation Authority. They’re here to support my private member’s bill, which I will be introducing shortly.

Introduction of Bills

816537 Ontario Inc. Act, 2022

Ms. Pierre moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr15, An Act to revive 816537 Ontario Inc.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried

First reading agreed to.

Flight Level Canada Inc. Act, 2022

Ms. Pierre moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr16, An Act to revive Flight Level Canada Inc.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): It is the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

WSIB Coverage for Workers in Residential Care Facilities and Group Homes Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 sur la protection à accorder aux travailleurs dans les établissements de soins en résidence et les foyers de groupe par la Commission de la sécurité professionnelle et de l’assurance contre les accidents du travail

Mr. Fraser moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 54, An Act to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 / Projet de loi 54, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1997 sur la sécurité professionnelle et l’assurance contre les accidents du travail.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’ll invite the member to briefly explain his bill.

Mr. John Fraser: The bill makes developmental service workers, personal support workers and youth workers who are doing the same work as other schedule 1 employees part of schedule 1, because right now, in Ontario, there are people who are doing the same work without the benefit of the same protections.

Four-Day Work Week Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 sur la semaine de travail de quatre jours

Ms. Karpoche moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 55, An Act respecting a four-day work week pilot / Projet de loi 55, Loi concernant un projet pilote visant à tester la semaine de travail de quatre jours.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Would the member like to briefly explain her bill?

Ms. Bhutila Karpoche: This bill establishes the Four-Day Work Week Commission, which will develop recommendations for a four-day workweek pilot project. The bill thereafter brings the pilot project into effect for one year. The minister is then required to prepare a report that sets out recommendations regarding a four-day workweek in Ontario.

Several jurisdictions around the world have adopted a four-day workweek with successful results, including greater job productivity, increased workplace morale, and improved mental and physical health for all workers. Ontario should do the same.

Fewer Floods, Safer Ontario Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 visant à réduire les inondations et accroître la sécurité en Ontario

Ms. McMahon moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 56, An Act to proclaim Flooding Awareness Week and to promote public awareness of flooding issues / Projet de loi 56, Loi proclamant la Semaine de la sensibilisation aux inondations et visant à sensibiliser le public aux enjeux qui leur sont liés.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Would the member like to explain the bill?

Ms. Mary-Margaret McMahon: Thank you. I know all of us here want to protect Ontarians from future disasters—I would also say that my emergency preparedness champions arrived: John MacKenzie and Kathryn Bakos.

This bill enacts several measures related to the public awareness of flooding issues.

The bill proclaims the fourth week in March in each year as Flooding Awareness Week. It also requires the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing to publish information on a government website about flooding issues.

Finally, the bill requires information on flooding issues to be sent to taxpayers along with their municipal tax bill. The minister is required to send that information to households in territories without municipal organization.

Respecting Injured Workers Act (Workplace Safety and Insurance Amendment), 2022 / Loi de 2022 sur le respect des travailleurs blessés (modifiant la Loi sur la sécurité professionnelle et l’assurance contre les accidents du travail)

Mr. Gates moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 57, An Act to amend the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997 in respect of compensation for loss of earnings / Projet de loi 57, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1997 sur la sécurité professionnelle et l’assurance contre les accidents du travail en ce qui concerne l’indemnité pour perte de gains.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

First reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Would the member like to explain the bill?

Mr. Wayne Gates: In calculating the amount of payments to an injured worker, the Workplace Safety and Insurance Act, 1997, considers the earnings that a worker is able to earn in suitable and available work. Currently, the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board may decide that a worker is able to earn amounts that they are not actually earning, on the basis of suitable and available work they do not actually have. The amendments would prevent that from happening unless the worker refused employment in bad faith.

Petitions

Tenant protection

Ms. Bhutila Karpoche: On behalf of my constituents at 55 Quebec Avenue and 50 High Park Avenue, who are not protected under rent control, I’d like to table a petition entitled “Bring Back Rent Control.” It reads:

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“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas the Ford government cancelled rent control on units built after November 2018; and

“Whereas the cost to rent a home has never been higher; and

“Whereas people are being forced to leave their communities because ... affordable homes are increasingly out of reach; and

“Whereas the rent control for all units act, 2022, will ensure tenants are not gouged on rent each year;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to protect tenants from predatory rent increases and pass the NDP’s Rent Control for All Tenants Act today to ensure renters can live in safe and affordable homes.”

I fully support this petition and will affix my signature to it.

Land use planning

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to thank the hundreds of Londoners who have signed this petition to protect the greenbelt. It reads:

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Bill 23 is the Ford government’s latest attempt to remove protected land from the greenbelt, allowing developers to bulldoze and pave over 7,000 acres of farmland in the greenbelt;

“Whereas Ontario is already losing 319.6 acres of farmland and green space daily to development;

“Whereas the government’s Housing Affordability Task Force found there are plenty of places to build homes without destroying the greenbelt;

“Whereas Ford’s repeated moves to tear up farmland and bulldoze wetlands have never been about housing, but are about making the rich richer;

“Whereas green spaces and farmland are what we rely on to grow our food, support natural habitats and prevent flooding;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately amend Bill 23, stop all plans to further remove protected land from the greenbelt and protect existing farmland in the province by passing the NDP’s Protecting Agricultural Land Act.”

I couldn’t agree more with this petition, will affix my signature and send it to the table with page Scarlett.

Automotive industry

M^me Dawn Gallagher Murphy: I have a petition here to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

“Whereas Ontario is a global automotive hub with the vehicles of the future being built here in Ontario by Ontario workers;

“Whereas Ontario is on track to meet its 2030 emissions reduction target, catalyzed by recent major investments in automotive, steel and industrial electrification;

“Whereas Ontario is the leader of Canada’s progress on emission reductions and is the province responsible for almost all of Canada’s progress towards its Paris agreement goal;

“Whereas the Ontario government is delivering on its plan to build more electricity generation and storage to support Ontario’s growth, including Canada’s first-ever small modular nuclear reactor;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“(1) That all members of provincial Parliament support the continued development of Ontario’s automotive sector and Ontario’s automotive workers; and

“(2) That all members of provincial Parliament support the government’s continuing efforts to provide low-cost, reliable and clean electricity for all Ontarians, Ontario businesses, and Ontario’s automotive manufacturers.”

I will sign this petition and provide it back to Kalila.

Ferry service

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I am proud to stand as the critic for transportation and read this petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario—which I received a lot of.

“Whereas the Wolfe Island ferry and Glenora ferry have had serious service disruptions due to a staffing crisis created by the Ontario government; and

“Whereas residents and visitors to Wolfe Island have been trapped on the island for up to 12 hours with no way to leave, even for emergencies or work; and

“Whereas Glenora ferry has had a reduced schedule during this year’s busy tourism season, creating hours of lineups and delays for passengers; and

“Whereas the Ministry of Transportation (MTO) ferry workers are drastically underpaid in comparison to the rest of the marine industry, causing recruitment and retention issues; and

“Whereas instead of paying competitive wages and hiring more permanent staff, MTO has contracted out the work to Reliance Offshore, an out-of-province, private temporary staffing agency, which charges up to twice as much hourly as ministry staff earn; and

“Whereas contracting out the work is a waste of our public funds on a stopgap solution that doesn’t provide long-term stability to our ferry system;

“We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“(1) Fix our ferries—stop the service disruptions and reductions caused by ministry understaffing.

“(2) Repeal Bill 124, which has imposed a three-year wage cut on already underpaid ferry workers during high inflation, and pay them fair, competitive wages.

“(3) End the outrageously expensive contracts with private temporary staffing agencies and hire permanent Ministry of Transportation ferry workers to work and live in our communities instead.”

Of course, I support this petition. I will affix my signature and send it to the table with Yusuf.

Health care funding

Mr. Dave Smith: I have a number of petitions here.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas our government was elected with a plan to stay open by investing in hospitals, long-term-care homes and home care and Ontario’s health care workforce; and

“Whereas to accomplish this our government is:

“—investing $40 billion in capital over 10 years for hospitals and other health infrastructure to meet the challenges that may lie ahead;

“—spending $764 million over two years to provide nurses with up to $5,000 retention bonuses;

“—investing $42.5 million over two years, beginning in 2023-24, to support the expansion of 160 undergraduate and 295 post-graduate positions, including at the new medical schools in Brampton and Scarborough;

“—investing an additional $1 billion in home care over three years;

“—shoring up domestic production of critical supplies and ensuring Ontario is prepared for future emergencies by committing, as of April 2022, more than $77 million of the Ontario Together Fund to leverage almost $230 million in investments to support manufacturing of Ontario-made personal protective equipment;

“—investing $3.5 billion over three years to support the continuation of over 3,000 hospital beds put in place during the pandemic, and $1.1 billion over three years to support the continuation of hundreds of new adult, pediatric and neonatal critical care beds added during COVID-19;

“—a new refundable Ontario Seniors Care at Home Tax Credit to help seniors aged 70 and older with eligible home care medical expenses to help people stay in their homes longer; and

“—a province-wide expansion to the community paramedicine program, enabling community paramedics to provide key non-emergent health care services within homes for eligible seniors;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

“To urge all members of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to continue to make strategic investments in support of A Plan to Stay Open.”

I fully endorse this petition. I will sign my name to it and give it to page Oriana to take to the table.

Social assistance

Ms. Jessica Bell: This is a petition to raise social assistance rates.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario’s social assistance rates are well below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line and woefully inadequate to cover the basic costs of food and rent;

“Whereas individuals on the Ontario Works program receive just $733 per month and individuals on the Ontario Disability Support Program receive just $1,169 per month, only 41% and 65% of the poverty line;

“Whereas the Ontario government has not increased social assistance rates since 2018, and Canada’s inflation rate in January 2022 was 5.1%, the highest rate in 30 years;

“Whereas the government of Canada recognized through the CERB program that a ‘basic income’ of $2,000 per month was the standard support required by individuals who lost their employment during the pandemic;

“We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly to increase social assistance rates to a base of $2,000 per month for those on Ontario Works, and to increase other programs accordingly.”

Thank you to Dr. Sally Palmer for collecting these signatures. I’ll be giving these petitions to page Hussain.

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Government accountability

Ms. Doly Begum: I have a petition here to stop Bill 39.

“Petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Bill 39, Better Municipal Governance Act, 2022, is an affront to democracy, allowing the Premier to bulldoze local decision-making, hand-pick regional council chairs, and increase strong-mayor powers even further;

“Whereas Bill 39 has nothing to do with solving the housing affordability crisis or building homes for real people, and is rather part of an anti-democratic pattern of decisions;

“Whereas in recent weeks, the Ford government has attacked democratic freedom by using the ‘notwithstanding’ clause to override workers’ constitutional right to strike, limiting the usual public consultation at committee hearings and pushing to allow the mayors of Ontario’s largest cities to rule their councils by minority;

“Whereas people in Ontario care about democracy, accountability and transparency, and deserve a government that does not seek to undermine these long-held values;

“Whereas this government has instead introduced yet another bill that will bulldoze local decision-making so” that Premier Doug “Ford can wield more power—all the while making it easier for” his “developer friends to get rich paving over the greenbelt;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, call on the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to stop Bill 39 and stop the attack on local democracy.”

Speaker, I fully support this petition, will affix my signature to it and give it to page Max to give to the Clerks.

Assistance sociale

M^me France Gélinas: J’aimerais remercier Jeanne D’Arc Audette de Val Thérèse dans mon comté pour les pétitions, « Doubler les taux d’aide sociale.

« Alors qu’il y a plus de 900 000 Ontarien(ne)s qui sont obligés de dépendre sur l’aide sociale;

« Alors que le gouvernement Ford a promis d’augmenter les taux du Programme ontarien de soutien aux personnes handicapées ... de seulement 5 %, et n’a fourni aucune aide supplémentaire aux personnes qui bénéficient du programme Ontario au travail...;

« Alors que l’inflation n’a jamais été aussi élevée depuis 40 ans et que les personnes à revenu fixe sont obligées de faire des sacrifices tous les jours, simplement pour survivre;

« Alors que les bénéficiaires du POSPH et » l’Ontario au travail « vivent dans une pauvreté profonde imposée par la loi, une maigre augmentation de 58 $ » par mois « et aucune aide supplémentaire aux bénéficiaires » de l’Ontario au travail « ne feront pratiquement rien pour améliorer la vie des personnes vivant de l’aide sociale; »

Ils et elles pétitionnent « l’Assemblée législative de l’Ontario de doubler immédiatement les taux d’aide sociale, afin que les gens puissent vivre une vie digne et saine. »

J’appuie cette pétition. Je vais la signer, et je demande à Eric de l’amener à la table des greffiers.

Social assistance

MPP Lise Vaugeois: I’d like to thank Darian Baskatawang for his signature on this petition.

“Petition to Raise Social Assistance Rates.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Ontario’s social assistance rates are well below Canada’s official Market Basket Measure poverty line...;

“Whereas an open letter to the Premier and two cabinet ministers, signed by over 230 organizations, recommends that social assistance rates be doubled for both Ontario Works (OW) and the Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP);

“Whereas the recent small budget increase of 5% for ODSP still leaves these citizens well below the poverty line, both they and those receiving the frozen OW rates are struggling to live in this time of alarming inflation;

“Whereas the government of Canada recognized in its CERB program that a basic income of $2,000 per month was the standard support required by individuals who lost their employment during the pandemic;

“We, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Legislative Assembly to double social assistance rates for OW and ODSP.”

I agree wholeheartedly with this petition and affix my signature and will pass it on to Hussain to deliver.

Land use planning

Ms. Bhutila Karpoche: On behalf of the hundreds and hundreds of residents of Parkdale–High Park who have signed this petition—it is entitled “Protect the Greenbelt.

“To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

“Whereas Bills 23 and 39 are the Ford government’s latest attempt to remove protected lands from the greenbelt, allowing developers to bulldoze and pave over 7,000 acres of farmland in the greenbelt;

“Whereas Ontario is already losing 319.6 acres of farmland and green space daily to development;

“Whereas the government’s Housing Affordability Task Force found there are plenty of places to build homes without destroying the greenbelt;

“Whereas” the Ford government’s “repeated moves to tear up farmland and bulldoze wetlands have never been about housing, but are about rewarding PC donors and making the rich richer;

“Whereas green spaces and farmland are what we rely on to grow our food, support natural habitats and prevent flooding;

“Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately stop all plans to remove what has long been protected land from the greenbelt, pass the NDP’s Protecting Agricultural Land Act, and protect irreplaceable farmland in the province of Ontario.”

I fully support this petition and will affix my signature to it.

Orders of the Day

Legislative Assembly Amendment Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 modifiant la Loi sur l’Assemblée législative

Mr. Calandra moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 51, An Act to amend the Legislative Assembly Act / Projet de loi 51, Loi modifiant la Loi sur l’Assemblée législative.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Pursuant to the order of the House adopted earlier today, I am now required to put the question.

Mr. Calandra has moved third reading of Bill 51, An Act to amend the Legislative Assembly Act. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion, please say “aye.”

All those opposed, say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote is required. It will be deferred until the next instance of deferred votes.

Third reading vote deferred.

Better Municipal Governance Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 visant à améliorer la gouvernance municipale

Resuming the debate adjourned on December 7, 2022, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

Bill 39, An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006 and the Municipal Act, 2001 and to enact the Duffins Rouge Agricultural Preserve Repeal Act, 2022 / Projet de loi 39, Loi visant à modifier la Loi de 2006 sur la cité de Toronto et la Loi de 2001 sur les municipalités et à édicter la Loi de 2022 abrogeant la Loi sur la Réserve agricole de Duffins-Rouge.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Questions and answers?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m glad to be able to ask a question about this bill. Specifically, schedule 2 has had a real impact locally on the folks in Durham region. Schedule 2 of Bill 39 repeals the Duffins Rouge Agricultural Preserve Act. It peels off this additional layer of protection to allow for access to the greenbelt, essentially, for that to be destroyed. Interestingly, Pickering city council, the night before last, sat late and said they do not support that. They don’t support the repeal of what we at home call DRAP. Do you think that this government is interested in what local councils feel when it comes to their greenbelt and decisions that affect their community?

Mr. Wayne Gates: Thanks very much for the question. Not only is it your area, member, but it’s also in Niagara. The town of Fort Erie—their mayor has been very, very clear that he doesn’t support building on the greenbelt. Grimsby, which I raised this morning in a question, did the same thing you did; they had the debate with all the councillors, with the mayors, everybody, and they’re not in support of the bill. I believe there is not a lot of support for developing on the greenbelt—without a doubt. I think we’re seeing that right across the province. We’re seeing protests everywhere. It is gaining momentum.

Your question to me: Do I think the party opposite really wants to listen to councils? I think its pretty obvious, that answer.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member from Ottawa Centre—

Interjection.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): South.

Mr. John Fraser: That’s okay. Close enough.

To the member: Why do you think that someone would take out a loan of $100 million to buy a piece of land that you could literally do nothing on?

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Mr. Wayne Gates: I think the question was, if I’m correct, why would somebody spend $100 million. I think the other part of that is, why would you spend $100 million and pay 21% interest on that money? I don’t think there are a lot of people even in this House who could afford to pay 21%, whether it be on a house, whether it be on your car, any of that.

I think it’s pretty clear that somebody, in my humble opinion—I’m not saying I’m accurate—must have let them know that this bill was coming forward. You don’t spend $100 million and pay 21% interest on land that, quite frankly, without this bill, is worthless. That’s how I see it. I’m not saying I’m correct, but if you take a look at it, I think most reasonable people would come to that conclusion. I appreciate the question.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member from Essex.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: I want to put this question to the member. I think it’s a good question, and I’d like to hear his views on it. In my riding, there are some small municipalities, and those mayors have certain powers outlined under legislation. The mayor of the city of Toronto has powers outlined under a different piece of legislation, and the mayor of the city of Toronto has different powers—some might say stronger powers—than other mayors in the province of Ontario. In other words, not all mayors have the same powers. My question to the member is this: Does he believe that all the mayors in Ontario should have exactly the same powers?

Mr. Wayne Gates: Well, I do appreciate that question from the member from Essex. I’ll be honest with you: John Tory, I believe, is the mayor of Toronto. I think I got that right. He’s also a Tory and led this party once or twice. So I don’t believe that the mayor should have the power. The reason why we just went through an election at a great cost to not only the towns and the cities right across the province of Ontario but also to the councillors that put their names forward—I’ve been a city councillor. I was a city councillor for four years before I got elected as an MPP. I believe that the wishes of those municipalities are that they want the councillors and the mayor to work together and vote on everything at least at 50% plus one.

I can tell you, I came out of the labour movement, which I think you’re from, in that area. Nobody gets elected in the labour movement at 33% of the vote—nobody.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member from Scarborough Southwest.

Ms. Doly Begum: I want to thank the member for his presentation. It’s good that I have the ability to ask one more question on Bill 39, because one of the things I asked this morning—and I’m sure the member from Niagara Falls knows this. About three, I believe, if not more of the Scarborough councillors are signatories on the letter that they have sent about Bill 39 to the government, to the Premier, about how—and one of them is newly elected in the riding of the Minister for Seniors and Accessibility. They don’t feel that their voices will be heard, and the local people who voted for them—we’re taking away their democratic right to be represented.

So my question is, when we see this, how is it fair? It’s like saying that one third of this House will be making the decisions. How is it fair that we’re taking away democratic rights of people, especially in my area, Scarborough, where people have been left behind for so long?

Mr. Wayne Gates: It’s a very good question. Your question this morning was very good; it wasn’t answered at that time either.

I want to say to you very clearly that I believe that if I’m elected as a city councillor, which I was once, they should have a voice at council. I also believe—because I’m not going to get a lot of time to talk here—that most people in the province of Ontario do not believe that we should be building homes on the greenbelt, that we should be tearing up farmland and jeopardizing our food source.

I also believe that we do have a housing crisis. I also believe that the task force said that there’s 88,000 acres of land that they could building housing on and we don’t have to touch the greenbelt. I believe that’s what we should be doing. To your point, nobody, when you get one third of the council that may agree with the mayor, should dictate to build homes on our greenbelt. If you care about your kids and your grandkids, their kids and their grandkids, we’ve got to do everything we can to protect the greenbelt and protect our farmland.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further questions?

Mrs. Robin Martin: I thank the member opposite. Earlier today, the member from University–Rosedale said that we should set targets for housing. Well, we did that in one of our prior pieces of legislation, and we said you should build housing at every subway stop across the city of Toronto and at every transit stop, to create sustainable community, something I thought the members opposite supported.

But what did the councillors in the city of Toronto do? They passed a resolution to say, “Yes, we agree to targets everyplace else, but not in my ward.” So my question is: Do you think that a single city councillor should be able to defeat the goal of building sustainable communities and supporting our transit system?

Mr. Wayne Gates: I’m going to tell you exactly what I think. Hopefully you’re listening.

Mr. Mike Harris: I’m listening, Wayne.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I appreciate that from the member, I think, from Kitchener.

I believe that we need housing. I believe that we need to make sure that our skilled trades build those houses. I believe whether you’re an IBEW member of the union as a labourer or in the building trades—I think they should all have that opportunity to build houses.

What I don’t believe—and I think most people in the province of Ontario agree with this. We shouldn’t be building on the greenbelt. What are you thinking? How are we going to protect our water? How are we going to protect the air that our kids and our grandkids are going to breathe? That’s what I believe, and we shouldn’t have to put councillors in that position.

Your group over there should say, “Listen, let’s build the homes”—and the guys in the middle; I forget about them. Let’s build homes in the province of Ontario, but let’s not touch the greenbelt and let’s not attack our farmers. Our member down here has talked about our farmers. That’s what—

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Thank you.

A quick question, a quick response: the member from London West.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I appreciated the comments from the member for Niagara Falls. An Angus Reid survey released today showed that the Premier now has one of the lowest approval ratings in the country, dropping 11 points since June. To the member: Do you think that carving up the greenbelt through Bills 23 and 39 has contributed to that dramatic decline in approval?

Mr. Wayne Gates: Absolutely, because I just finished saying that I believe most residents in the province of Ontario do not want to touch the greenbelt.

What’s also interesting—the member never asked a question; I wish she did, so I’ll help her out a little bit. Did you know that the Premier and the minister, 18 times—if you’ve got time, go on my social media, because I put it up—had said, “We’re never going to touch the greenbelt”? I know you can’t say that’s a lie in the House, because I’d have to retract that, but think about that. We all know that he had said—

Interjections: Withdraw. Withdraw.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Withdraw.

Mr. Wayne Gates: I appreciate that. Thank you. I’m done anyways. Take care.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

Mr. John Fraser: It is Christmas, so we all have to think about how we’re treating each other in here. I do want to tell the member from Niagara Falls that it is actually 19 times. I was going to heckle him, but I respect him too much to heckle him on that.

What I do know is that we could have a list of who has been naughty and nice in here. We definitely know who has been naughty, and there is going to be some coal in a few people’s stockings across the way, I’m afraid to say. That will make some people happy, because some people over there like coal and wish we could go back to it.

Interjections.

Mr. John Fraser: There we go. I write my own stuff, so your criticism is really wounding me.

Speaker, Bill 39, minority rule: How did that become a thing in Ontario? How do you get minority rule? You get that in places where there’s something that’s called authoritarianism, or not a well-developed democracy, where one third of the people can get to make the decision for everybody else.

I’ve been in government, so I know that what the government is saying to all of its members and all of us: “That’s okay. Don’t worry about it. You don’t need to worry about that one-third thing. That will be okay. It’s the right thing for John Tory and the mayor of Ottawa”—who says, “I don’t actually want that,” as a whole bunch of other mayors are saying. Just remember, I don’t think any of us will be happy with a decision that’s made by one third of the people responsible for it. I don’t think we do that in here. Actually, if we think that is a good idea, maybe we should go to a one-third rule in here for some things. Maybe, in questions and answers, somebody has some great ideas about how we can make that work in here. I don’t think any of us think that’s a good idea, no matter what they’re telling us.

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Here’s the thing. Why are they doing it? This is why—

Interjections.

Mr. John Fraser: I wouldn’t heckle me from there.

This is why: Because the Premier and the government are going to want those mayors to do certain things that their council is not going to agree with. That’s why. It’s not about the mayors; it’s about the Premier and his minister saying, “We want to do this over here, so we are going to put the squeeze on this mayor to do this thing and we will use what leverage we have”—because they have got a ton of leverage. They have more leverage than they need.

Take all of that aside. One third of the people making a decision for everyone just doesn’t fly anywhere. It doesn’t pass the smell test, which seems to be the test that we’re talking a lot about today when we are talking about the greenbelt.

I had a question the other day—it was related to the greenbelt—but it reminded me of something that happened in Ottawa. Ottawa set its urban boundary last year. They said, “Here’s our urban boundary. This is what it’s going to be.” Everybody knew what the rules of the game were—except the minister changed that this year. Without consulting Ottawa, he just expanded Ottawa’s urban boundary because he felt like it or the government felt like it or somebody in the government felt like it. Against the wishes of the council of the city of Ottawa, they just expanded it. But, heck, you know, all of a sudden, there are all of these land connections where people were buying up that land where you could literally do nothing on for years, for millions and millions of dollars. That’s really strange. Isn’t that odd? I think if we were talking about stocks, bonds and securities, somebody might say, “Well, that kind of smells like insider trading. It’s got that feel to it.” And it really does.

As I asked the member for Niagara Falls, why would you borrow $100 million to buy land that you could literally do almost nothing on? Because weeks later, you knew you would be able to. That’s why you do it. So it just doesn’t feel right.

Speaker, it’s that time of year. We have got to be kind to each other. All the kids were caroling down the hall. They were singing. And since the kids were singing, in keeping with Christmas, the bells should be ringing, so I call for adjournment of the debate.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Mr. Fraser has moved the adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carries?

I declare the motion carried.

Third reading debate adjourned.

Better Municipal Governance Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 visant à améliorer la gouvernance municipale

Resuming the debate adjourned on December 7, 2022, on the motion for third reading of the following bill:

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Resuming debate, the member from Ottawa South.

Mr. John Fraser: Thank you, and I am pleased to have the opportunity again. It’s too bad we can’t all be in the Christmas spirit and listen to those bells, but perhaps we’ll get a chance.

I’ve heard the government say repeatedly that our party opened up the greenbelt seven times, and that’s right. We did that for a whole bunch of boundary changes that amounted to about 58 hectares. But at the same time, when we did that, we protected 21 river basins and added 9,000 hectares to the greenbelt. So when the government says this, they’re really not encapsulating what happened, because they don’t want people to know that they’re cracking open 4,700 hectares of the greenbelt, and they don’t need it, because their own commission said, “You don’t need to do this. You’ve got enough land in the urban boundaries. You can do this.”

And so, Speaker, I call for adjournment of the House.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Mr. Fraser has moved the adjournment of the House. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, say “aye.”

All those opposed, say “nay.”

In my opinion, the nays have it.

We’ll call in the members. This is a 30-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1346 to 1416.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Mr. Fraser has moved the adjournment of the House.

All those in favour of the motion, please rise and remain standing to be counted by the Clerks.

All those opposed to the motion, please rise and remain standing to be counted by the Clerks.

The Deputy Clerk (Mr. Trevor Day): They ayes are 16; the nays are 78.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): I declare the motion lost.

Return to debate: the member from Ottawa South.

Mr. John Fraser: Well, since you’re all here, I really—

Interjections.

Mr. John Fraser: No, really, seriously, since you’re all here—there was no other way to get you together. I just want to say to everyone who’s here right now, I wish for you and your family a very, very merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanza, whatever you celebrate. I hope you all have a good break and enjoy your family and friends.

Mr. Will Bouma: We love you, John.

Mr. John Fraser: I love you, too. I love all of you. I really do. We are one—

Hon. Doug Ford: That’s the nicest thing you’ve said in four years.

Mr. John Fraser: Okay. We’re all one weird, dysfunctional family. And, Premier, I consider you, to me, my brother—my little brother.

We all, obviously, have our differences here—and you’re not going to want to stick around to hear what I say about Bill 39, so you should clear out pretty darn soon. There you go. Get going. You can leave. I don’t care. It doesn’t hurt my feelings. Sometimes the bells ring and you get the spirit of Christmas. Look at you all, scurrying away. Okay. My gosh, what a mass exodus.

Interjection.

Mr. John Fraser: Thank you. And your French was great this morning, Minister. I appreciate that, yes. Votre français est très bon.

I’ll just finish up here. Bill 39: It’s the lump of coal in Ontarians’ stockings this Christmas—the lump of coal.

Hon. Greg Rickford: Bye-bye, niceness.

Mr. John Fraser: Hey, look, I call it like I see it. It’s not a gift. Well, I’m wrong: Bill 39 is a gift, but it’s only a gift if you are the mayor of Toronto. It’s only a gift if you’re looking to buy some land or you bought some already.

I will just close off now for questions and answers because I think I’m eroding the goodwill that we all just built up over the last two or three minutes.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Questions?

Mr. Anthony Leardi: Madam Speaker, I’ve been, if members have noticed, asking the same question of several members, because I thought it was a good question and I thought it was a question that went right to the heart of the matter of Bill 39.

As we all know, in actual fact, as things exist today, several powers enumerated under various acts of this province differentiate between mayors. The mayors, for example, in smaller towns do not have the same powers as mayors in larger cities, and, of course, the mayor of the city of Toronto has powers enumerated under the City of Toronto Act that exceed powers given to other mayors.

And so I’ll ask the same question I’ve asked before: Does the member believe that all the mayors all across Ontario should have exactly the same powers?

Mr. John Fraser: I have a question that comes back: Would the member opposite agree with applying those principles in this Legislature?

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Question?

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: Speaker, I do believe in the existence of coincidence and of luck. Every couple of weeks you turn on the TV or you open the newspaper and there’s someone with a giant cheque; they’ve won the lottery. They look happy; they’re full of joy. They all have an incredible story as to why they got the ticket. Maybe it was in a dream. Maybe it was just randomly, on the way home, they went to the store and they picked up the ticket.

So in the spirit of that luck and coincidence, can the member think of any examples in recent history or time where an individual or group, perhaps well connected and powerful, has been extremely lucky or coincidentally has come upon a great fortune?

Mr. John Fraser: That’s a loaded question. We all know—okay. Maybe when I get the next question, someone can give me the answer to this question, which is: Why would you borrow $100 million to buy a piece of land that you could literally do nothing on? Almost nothing. Maybe farm—maybe. Why would you buy that? Why would you buy it? You would spend that money because you knew that in a few weeks you could do something on that. I think that that’s incredibly lucky. Good fortune—it’s unbelievable. The stars must have aligned. What incredible luck. What are the odds? Probably even greater than the 6/49, right? Or the super lotto.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Member from Kitchener-Conestoga.

Mr. Mike Harris: I would like to remind the member from Ottawa South that I believe the Premier he served under actually had a chief of staff go to jail because of some rather interesting things that had happened within their government.

But I will digress a little bit, and I will ask a serious question. I hope that I get a serious answer back and that it’s not deflected. My question to the member is: Does he believe that residents and people here in Ontario should have choice when it comes to the housing that is built here? Does he believe that everyone should have an opportunity to live in the kind of home—whether it’s an apartment, a condo, a townhouse, a single-family home in the country. Should there be an opportunity for the people of Ontario to decide where they want to live and not have it forced upon them by government?

Mr. John Fraser: You’re exactly right: It shouldn’t be forced upon them by government. It shouldn’t be forced upon them by government because they say that they’re going to open up land that they don’t have to open up, and that’s where you’re going to live.

And also Bill 23, that’s going to raise property taxes and make it harder for people to live in the homes that they’re in—old people, people who are on fixed incomes. You want to talk about giving people choice? You’re not giving people choice. You know who you’re giving choices to? You’re giving choices to developers, who choose to buy that piece of land because we’re going to open it up.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: Point of order?

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member from Barrie–Innisfil has a point of order.

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: In lieu of a rotation, Speaker, I move that the question now be put.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Ms. Khanjin has moved that the question be now put. I am satisfied that there has been sufficient debate to allow this question to be put to the House. There has been over seven hours of debate and 21 speakers. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion that the question be now put, say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion that the question be now put, say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred to the next instance of deferred votes.

Vote deferred.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Orders of the day.

1204755 Ontario Limited Act, 2022

Mr. Vanthof moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr3, An Act to revive 1204755 Ontario Limited.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Motion carried.

Second reading agreed to.

1204755 Ontario Limited Act, 2022

Mr. Vanthof moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr3, An Act to revive 1204755 Ontario Limited.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Orders of the day?

Quadcard Entertainment Ltd. Act, 2022

Ms. French moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr4, An Act to revive Quadcard Entertainment Ltd.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

Quadcard Entertainment Ltd. Act, 2022

Ms. French moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr4, An Act to revive Quadcard Entertainment Ltd.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

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H.B. Arndt & Associates Ltd. Act, 2022

Ms. Sattler moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr5, An Act to revive H.B. Arndt & Associates Ltd.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

H.B. Arndt & Associates Ltd. Act, 2022

Ms. Sattler moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr5, An Act to revive H.B. Arndt & Associates Ltd.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Nextblock Inc. Act, 2022

Ms. Bell moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr6, An Act to revive Nextblock Inc.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

Nextblock Inc. Act, 2022

Ms. Bell moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr6, An Act to revive Nextblock Inc.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Welberne Holding Corp. Act, 2022

Mr. Kernaghan moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr7, An Act to revive Welberne Holding Corp.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

Welberne Holding Corp. Act, 2022

Mr. Kernaghan moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr7, An Act to revive Welberne Holding Corp.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

405456 Ontario Limited Act, 2022

Ms. McMahon moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr2, An Act to revive 405456 Ontario Limited.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Second reading agreed to.

405456 Ontario Limited Act, 2022

Ms. McMahon moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr2, An Act to revive 405456 Ontario Limited.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Orders of the day.

Ms. Andrea Khanjin: Speaker, if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock at 6.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Does the House agree? Agreed.

Private Members’ Public Business

Making Northern Ontario Highways Safer Act, 2022 / Loi de 2022 visant à accroître la sécurité des voies publiques dans le nord de l’Ontario

Mr. Bourgouin moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill 43, An Act to amend the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to make northern Ontario highways safer / Projet de loi 43, Loi modifiant la Loi sur l’aménagement des voies publiques et des transports en commun pour accroître la sécurité des voies publiques dans le nord de l’Ontario.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Pursuant to standing order 100, the member has 12 minutes for their presentation and two minutes for a reply.

M. Guy Bourgouin: Today I’m here to present to you Bill 43, the Making Northern Ontario Highways Safer Act, 2022. I want to make sure: This has nothing to do with the plow drivers. The drivers make the best of the work they can with the tools they have.

This is the third time I have proposed this bill. The Conservative government voted down Bill 125 and let Bill 59 die in committee. Now, here we are, in 2022, and the current government has proposed a motion that would shorten the target time for clearing snow on Highways 11 and 17 from 16 hours of the end of a winter storm to 12 hours.

In my opinion, this is not enough, and it falls short of what we need and deserve in northern Ontario. This is why I chose to reintroduce my bill once again. Our highways and our people are just as important as any other place or Ontarian. We deserve the same standards as the south, especially because it is our way of life and without it functioning properly, we are without our basic needs to survive.

Too many northern Ontarians have lost their lives or suffered life-altering injuries driving on poorly maintained routes in the winter. Bill 43, the Making Northern Ontario Highways Safer Act, 2022, seeks to reduce the number of winter closures on Highways 11 and 17 that are oftentimes caused by poor road conditions and maintenance standards that are not on par with those of southern Ontario highways. It does so by amending the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act, 1990, setting out classification systems for Ontario highways considering the five classes of highways, classifying Highways 11 and 17 on par with all 400-series highways and the QEW highway, and ensuring the strictest requirements for snow removal and requiring the pavement be bare of snow within eight hours of the end of a snowfall.

The Ministry of Transportation’s snow removal classification standards depend on the type of highway and traffic volumes, not on climate or vehicle size and weight. This is a huge issue. We cannot be evaluated based on the same criteria as the south, because we are not the south. Everything is different up north. By enforcing robust winter maintenance standards, this bill will and can save lives in northern Ontario by making northern highways safer for drivers.

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Pourquoi le huit heures est si important, comparativement à 12 heures? La route 11 et 17 est notre artère du Nord. On n’a pas de route alternative. Nous n’avons pas de transport public. Les gens prennent la route pour des rendez-vous médicaux, pour se rendre au travail, aller à l’école, voyager, se rendre à l’aéroport, etc. La route est saturée de transports poids lourd qui sont pressés de livrer leurs biens à nos communautés. Beaucoup de conducteurs de ces transports n’ont pas d’expérience de conduite dans nos conditions climatiques, alors il faut avoir les critères les plus stricts en matière de déneigement et garantir que les chaussées soient dépourvues de neige dans les huit heures suivant la fin d’une chute de neige. Ceci va sauver des vies; c’est simple.

Notre climat varie tellement rapidement. Les tempêtes frappent vite et changent nos conditions d’une heure à l’autre. Le sel et les chimiques n’ont pas le même effet avec nos climats que dans le Sud.

Regardons ce qui s’est produit la semaine dernière dans le coin de Hearst. L’autoroute a été fermée mercredi passé de Hearst à Geraldton à cause d’une tempête. Ensuite, une collision fatale a fermé l’autoroute entre Hearst et Nipigon. L’autoroute a été fermée pour près de 30 heures. Ceci a créé une filée de trafic de plus de 70 kilomètres de long, allant vers l’est de Hearst à Kapuskasing. Mon assistante de bureau doit prendre la route pour se rendre au travail le matin, et ce matin-là elle a dû conduire dans le milieu de l’autoroute, à côté des transports, pour entrer en ville.

Suite à cela, samedi matin, deux jours plus tard, après une petite tombée de neige en soirée, les routes étaient dangereuses de nouveau. Plusieurs gens de Kapuskasing se sont rendus à Hearst, et vice versa, et ont envoyé des photos et des plaintes à mon bureau. Plus qu’une dizaine de familles voyageaient pour une partie de hockey vers 10 heures du matin. Selon eux, il n’y avait aucun chasse-neige sur les routes. Plus tard en après-midi, le chemin a fermé. La PPO a dit aux gens qui attendaient à la barrière routière qu’ils attendaient les camions chasse-neige pour déblayer avant de rouvrir la route. Ce jour-là, il n’y avait aucune raison pour les fermetures de route.

À Thunder Bay le vendredi soir, un conducteur de chasse-neige a été heurté par un camion poids lourd et a perdu la vie.

Ceci est la réalité des gens du Nord. Malheureusement, on a tous vécu des peurs sur la route et des inquiétudes pour nos aimés. Encore pire, plusieurs ont été victimes de collision et même de la mort.

Ce n’est pas moi, ici, comme député, qui vous raconte des histoires; ce sont des histoires des résidents qu’on entend jour après jour; ça fait des années. Les municipalités de Kapuskasing, Hearst, Fauquier et Smooth Rock Falls, des agences et des compagnies sont toutes en appui de mon projet de loi 43 que je vous propose aujourd’hui. C’est le temps d’agir.

Selon l’examen technique des niveaux de service hivernal des routes 11 et 17 dans le nord de l’Ontario sur le site provincial, ça dit : « Le rapport constate que l’amélioration des niveaux de service n’aura qu’une incidence minimale sur le résultat final de dégagement des chaussées après une tempête. »

Depuis quand est-ce que la vie des gens est négociable? Que ça soit une vie de sauvée ou plusieurs, on minimise les risques. Un standard de huit heures fait en sorte que les conditions routières seront plus abordables, alors c’est moins dangereux. Il y a moins de risques. Les gens auront moins peur. La province va sauver des millions. Il y aura moins de retards pour les camionneurs pour se rendre à leurs destinations, moins de délais. Les gens vont pouvoir se fier à l’autoroute pour se rendre à leur travail, leurs rendez-vous, aux écoles, etc. En ce moment, les gens du Nord n’ont aucune confiance dans les routes—aucune, madame la Présidente.

Cet examen en ligne mentionne que le gouvernement en 2019-2020 a investi approximativement $111 millions sur l’entretien des routes dans le nord de l’Ontario, comparativement à $65 millions par année lors des cinq dernières années. C’est vrai; on parle du 2+1; on parle qu’ils ont monter à—oui, c’était des améliorations; on les reconnaît. Mais comme on dit, il y a de bons contracteurs, mais aussi il y a de mauvais contracteurs. Pour reconnaître les bons contracteurs, il faut dénoncer les mauvais.

Je me demande où est passé cet argent, parce que chez nous certains contracteurs n’ont même pas assez de main-d’oeuvre pour opérer les camions. Les superviseurs sont forcés de prendre la relève et d’opérer les camions au lieu de surveiller les routes et leurs équipes. Il y a des camions brisés, des chasse-neiges qui ne sont pas conformes aux règlements de la province. Ils sont supposés avoir des « Air Lift », des trois essieux.

Où est l’argent? Le gouvernement a voulu privatiser ses contrats, et voici ce qu’on a comme services. Où sont les inspecteurs, les inspecteurs qui vont vérifier les contracteurs avant qu’ils ne commencent? Où sont-ils passés, pour corriger les contracteurs abusifs?

Le site de 511 n’est pas mis à jour. Lors de la fermeture que j’ai mentionnée tantôt, le site Web de 511 indiquait que la route était ouverte. Nous avons des preuves de ceci. On ne peut pas se fier à ce service. Cependant, le gouvernement a investi beaucoup? C’est questionnable.

Alors, même si on propose des améliorations aux services, le gouvernement et son ministère se doivent de tenir les contracteurs responsables de leurs obligations et d’assurer que les inspections sont faites de façon constante et conforme à la loi. Il devrait y avoir des pénalités sévères pour ceux qui ne rencontrent pas leurs obligations. Le gouvernement doit s’assurer que les méthodes de communication sont efficaces et à jour et à vrai temps.

Alors, pour terminer, c’est sûr qu’il y a plusieurs enjeux qui affectent la sécurité routière dans le Nord, et nous allons travailler fort pour adresser tout ce qu’on peut. Je demande au gouvernement de voter en faveur de mon projet de loi.

La motion de M. Holland est bonne. C’est un pas dans la bonne direction; par contre, on a besoin de plus que ça dans le Nord. Vous avez des députés du Nord qui comprennent la gravité des conditions routières parce qu’ils les vivent et les voyagent. Nos commettants méritent un standard comme celui du Sud.

I would like to end by saying: With Mr. Holland’s motion, it made it clear that this government finally agreed with me that northern Ontario highways need better standards.

It is time to bring this even further and work together to ensure the safety of Ontarians and pass my private member’s bill to ensure a high standard of road maintenance, like in the south, and classify Highways 17 and 11 at par with all 400-series and QEW highways.

I want to thank you for listening and thank you, Speaker, for allowing me to present my private member’s bill today.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: It’s my pleasure to rise here today to speak to Bill 43, the Making Northern Ontario Highways Safer Act, introduced by the member.

Everyone expects access to a safe and efficient provincial highway network, regardless of where they live or weather conditions. As the parliamentary assistant to the Ministry of Transportation, I understand that the safety of the province’s transportation network is a top priority, and I know it’s a priority shared by every member of this House.

Our collaborative efforts ensure Ontario’s roads and highways remain among the safest roads in North America, and the entire team at the Ministry of Transportation is committed to keeping Ontarians safe, particularly during the winter season. That’s why MTO has continuously strengthened the quality of winter maintenance operations over the past four and a half years.

This ministry is responsible for year-round highway maintenance of 17,000 kilometres of provincial highways, including 2,880 bridges, representing about $82 billion of assets. This team of dedicated public servants continues to work diligently with maintenance contractors to add equipment, improve service delivery—particularly in northern Ontario—and adopt new technologies to improve overall service. Their efforts exemplify a firm commitment to keeping Ontario’s roads and highways safe throughout the year across every corner of the province.

Speaker, we’re just a few short weeks away from the official start of winter, but as the members of this House know well, snow doesn’t wait for winter to arrive in the north. We’ve already seen snow in some parts of northern Ontario, and, as I mentioned earlier, the safety of Ontarians will always be our top priority.

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We’re committed to keeping provincial roads and highways safe all year round no matter the weather. That’s why Ontario has among the highest winter maintenance standards in North America, and our government is committed to keeping it that way.

After a storm, the province is committed to clearing snow from highways within the bare pavement standard 90% of the time. In fact, Ontario met that standard 95% of the time last winter. But we are listening to concerns of northerners and have made changes to help make winter driving safer in the north and across Ontario.

Last month, we took another step forward, keeping people in northern Ontario moving safely throughout the winter by clearing snow from Highways 11 and 17 faster. MTO, the Ministry of Transportation, is moving forward this winter with a new level of service on Highways 11 and 17: the Ontario Trans-Canada standard, requiring contractors to clear these highways within 12 hours of the end of a winter storm, four hours faster than our previous standard.

Speaker, we made this change at the call of this House, just a few weeks ago, on a motion by the member of Thunder Bay–Atikokan calling for the new standard to be implemented. That was a motion supported by all sides of this House. This change builds on a detailed technical review of Highways 11 and 17 winter maintenance services and the work we did during the Highways 11 and 17 winter maintenance pilot over the last two winter sessions. The pilot project identified sections of Highways 11 and 17 where we can impose tougher standards for clearance, and it looked at areas where contractors were having difficulty meeting our standards. The Ontario Trans-Canada standard will make Highways 11 and 17 safer by clearing them faster while also optimizing the use of resources and protecting our environment.

I think my friend and colleague the member representing Nipissing and the Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade put it best when he said, “Clearing Highways 11 and 17 to bare pavement four hours faster following a winter storm will help keep ... residents safe when they travel.” By clearing the highways faster, we’re helping to keep essential goods moving across Ontario and helping to ensure people can get where they need to be safely.

Over the past several years, MTO’s technical staff have conducted a detailed technical review, a multi-year pilot project regarding the level of winter maintenance services, and additional measures to enhance winter maintenance services along Highways 11 and 17. As part of this work, the ministry carried out a comprehensive review of snow clearance time after storms, which included eight hours, the new 12 hours and the previous 16-hour standard.

The diligent work done by MTO staff has determined that the new Ontario Trans-Canada standard that requires snow to be cleared on Highways 11 and 17 within 12 hours at the end of a winter storm is the most effective approach to deliver the most effective winter maintenance services. This new level of service will also ensure the optimized use of equipment and winter materials, while also managing the harmful impacts of salt on vehicles, highway infrastructure and the environment. The new Ontario Trans-Canada standard, with a “12 hours to bare pavement standard,” is the most appropriate for Highways 11 and 17, as it has been developed using an evidence-based approach involving detailed technical work and extensive data analysis.

At the same time, ongoing investments in the northern highways continue to improve winter maintenance while safely easing traffic flow throughout the year. But in the north, it can be difficult to clear some roads because of lower temperatures and traffic volumes, so we know it takes more than just investments to keep roads clear. It takes a holistic and multi-pronged approach, and that’s why MTO regularly reviews and adjusts to enhance the province’s winter maintenance operations. These enhancements include increasing the use of anti-icing liquid before a winter storm and using innovative technology such as under-body plows that perform better in snowpack conditions.

We also continue to transition maintenance contracts to new contract models that include more prescriptive requirements. These contract models specify equipment and routes for contractors to provide improved winter maintenance services.

We’re also building another 24 road weather information stations, including 14 in northern Ontario. Sixteen solar-powered mini-weather stations have also been recently added in northern Ontario to allow us to better respond to the changing weather conditions.

We’re building 10 new rest areas and improving 14 existing rest areas to help provide a safe place to stop during the winter season. This work includes the rehabilitation of rest areas along Highways 17 at Argon Park, Manitouwadge and the Manitoba border; on Highway 11 at Ryland; and along Highway 631 near Highway 11, which includes truck parking and year-round bathrooms.

We have also strengthened the oversight of the private contractors we work closely with to clear highways faster when the snow begins to fall.

We’re making efforts to better plan and co-ordinate with local areas to address the unique transportation needs of people and businesses in northern Ontario through our ministry’s ongoing planning efforts in the region, outlined in Connecting the North: A Draft Transportation Plan for Northern Ontario.

Last January, we created a task force in northern Ontario that will focus on transportation needs and opportunities in the region. Establishing a task force was one of the more than 60 actions set out in the transportation plan for this region. The northern task force is made up of northern mayors, Indigenous chiefs and other business and transportation leaders from across the north who will examine ways to make it easier for people and goods to travel in the region.

Speaker, the recent request for proposals for a 2+1 highway pilot on Highway 11 in North Bay represents another significant action we’ve taken to make roads safer and improve traffic flow in northern Ontario. A 2+1 highway is a three-lane highway with a centre passing lane that alternates direction every two to five kilometres, separated by a barrier. When it comes to road safety, this model has a proven track record of success around the world. This critical infrastructure is part of our plan to build Ontario, which includes a commitment of more than $25 billion over the next 10 years to build and expand the province’s roads and highways.

This year, we’re investing $3 billion to expand and repair provincial highways, roads and bridges, including nearly $624 million in northern Ontario alone. These historic investments will help address the unique transportation needs of the people and businesses in northern Ontario that rely on our roads and highways to get where they need to go.

Speaker, the preparation for winter never really stops. The Ministry of Transportation’s team of area maintenance contractors has been preparing for this winter since the end of last winter to ensure that they have the appropriate supplies and equipment ready for the season ahead. While we’ve all seen first-hand the difficult driving conditions winter presents, their work ensures that we can go about our daily tasks confidently while knowing that our commute will be safe. The fact that Ontario has some of the highest winter maintenance standards in North America only underscores the importance we place on this work.

Speaker, we will continue to work on this file, and, given the motion passed by this House and the recent announcement by the Minister of Transportation of our new Ontario Trans-Canada standard, I will not be supporting this proposed legislation.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

MPP Lise Vaugeois: In my riding of Thunder Bay–Superior North and, indeed, across the entire northeastern and northwestern part of Ontario, we face treacherous driving conditions on highways used by school buses and local people getting their groceries, going to work and travelling long distances to get to medical appointments. They share these roads with thousands and thousands of transport trucks.

For the 200 kilometres of Highway 11 between Longlac and Nipigon, there are few, if any, passing lanes. Even during good weather, there are many deadly accidents. In winter, driving these roads can be terrifying.

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I want to explain: Highway 11 comes across the north and then comes south and joins Highway 17 at Nipigon. Last week, during a snowstorm, those two branches of Highways 11 and 17 were shut for 36 hours—completely shut down. No one was going anywhere. And people died during that time. There were serious fatalities on those roads. I will also say that that stretch from Nipigon to Beardmore just lost its ambulance service because of underfunding. So we’re talking really very, very serious conditions.

There are also no businesses at all on many, many stretches of these highways, which means that there’s no place to pull off. Can you imagine being stuck on a highway in a winter storm for 36 hours, or being injured and waiting for an ambulance when nobody can get through because the roads haven’t been cleared?

We heard last week about a 2+1 highway project taking place in North Bay. This sounds like a great project. I look forward to seeing it in other parts of the province. But North Bay isn’t even on our side of the map. Thunder Bay is at least 12 hours away from North Bay and it’s a world apart.

Truck traffic is only increasing, with mining developments using exactly the same highways to transport building materials in one direction and then the mining materials out of the region. Every day, I read about another tragic death on one of these highways.

I implore the government to support our member’s bill to bring highway clearing of the Trans-Canada Highway to an eight-hour standard. Faster snow clearing is really our only hope of keeping these highways open and, most importantly, reducing the number of fatalities.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

Mr. Michael Mantha: I want to start by thanking the member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay for bringing this bill forward once again, with the eight-hour standard that is required on Highways 11 and 17.

I want to look to the men and women who operate those snowplows. You are priceless individuals. You are heroes. You are brave individuals that put your lives on the line to clear those roads. Nobody needs to describe those situations, particularly along the shores of Lake Superior in snow squalls, when you’re travelling up Montreal Hill. It is white knuckles on that wheel, and these individuals go out there and they try to do their best to make sure our roads are clean.

In saying that, there is a huge problem with the recruitment of snowplow operators. Just like anything else, there are good apples that are out there and there are bad apples. There are good companies and bad companies. These individuals need to be properly paid so that they can secure the jobs and the hours that they’re looking to get.

Many of these drivers who operate those snowplows deal with frightening situations. I’ve often talked with an individual; he’s a representative for Truckers for Safer Highways, Travis McDougall. We’ve talked about bad apples and good apples. We’ve talked about bad passing habits that certain truck drivers have, the excessive speeds that everybody drives on our northern highways, and the inexperience of a southern driver who comes to northern Ontario driving on the narrow roads that we have. Our shoulders really aren’t shoulders; they’re a ribbon on the side of the highway.

These are all things that are contributing to the unsafe roads that we have in northern Ontario. When I hear, through the Auditor General, that the government has removed $158 million that was allocated to northern highways and reallocated those funds to southern roads, it really ticks me off, because we are not second-rate citizens in this province. We deserve the same safe roads throughout northern Ontario.

I want to go back to the bad passing habits that are there, because those plow drivers who are driving on the roads—my goodness. Give them the room to operate. Give them the room to plow. And if they’re coming to you, it’s not a chicken game. It’s not, “Oh, I’ll make him move over.” They have to keep those roads plowed. Slow down, pull to the side of the road and let them do their work that they need to do.

Again, I want to thank the member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay for bringing this bill forward. It is not what the member from Thunder Bay–Atikokan brought forward, which was a motion for a 12-hour target. This is an eight-hour standard that we need to see on our highways, because they are our main arteries in northern Ontario, Highways 17 and 11.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

M^me France Gélinas: I’m really proud of my colleague from Mushkegowuk–James Bay for bringing this bill forward.

I cannot tell you how dangerous it is to drive in the winter through my riding; actually, it’s dangerous in the summer also. If you look at Highway 144, there is no shoulder to that highway. It’s narrow. It goes through 200 kilometres where there is nothing but beautiful northern Ontario. There is no place to pull over; there is no gas station; there is nothing. And it snows. Figure it out. We’re in northern Ontario and it snows.

Every day that it snows, the same thing happens: I will get pictures of the contractor that does the part from Cartier to Marquette Lake. They do a very decent job of getting the snow out and bringing it to bare pavement. From Marquette Lake down to Highway 101, the contractor doesn’t even come out. It doesn’t matter how much snow there is out there, it doesn’t matter how many times we call: “No, no. There’s not enough snow.” How could it be enough snow up to the lake, up to Marquette Lake? It’s the exact same amount of snow that has fallen, but he says “No, you don’t meet the standard. We don’t have to come out.”

So you call who is in charge of enforcing this. Well, guess what, Speaker? The previous Conservative government privatized winter road maintenance, and then the Liberal government privatized the supervision of winter road maintenance. And some of those companies are one and the same: They monitor their own bad work.

Are there some good snowplow operators and some good contractors? Yes, there are. Are there some bad ones? Yes, there are. It is the responsibility of the government to make sure that those contracts are being enforced, to make sure that the standards are being maintained. None of this happens. But you know what happens, Speaker? The highway gets closed. You know what happens, Speaker? Really bad accidents happen. Do you what happens? People get hurt and, unfortunately, people die. This is the reality of the north.

All of this could be prevented. Pass the bill from my colleague from Mushkegowuk–James Bay. Bring us to the same standard that you have in the south. What’s the difference between a driver who drives in Barrie and a driver who drives in Nickel Belt? We are the same people. We deserve the same standard, not some kind of a target of 12 hours that we hope will happen because life is good. No, I want standards that are maintained, that are achieved and that are adhered to, and this will happen if you pass this bill.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Further debate?

Mr. John Vanthof: Before I start my remarks, I would like, on behalf of the Legislature, like to give our condolences to someone who recently passed away in my riding. Shane Allison passed away while at work at Alamos Gold in Matachewan. Our thoughts go out to his family and friends. I’d just like to put that on the record when I first stand to be able to speak.

I would like to commend the member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay for bringing this bill forward, and commend all our colleagues who have been fighting this fight for many, many years: the fight to make northern highways better. I can remember, when I got elected, we started a northern roads report, because we were told, “Oh, we’re meeting our standards 95% of the time,” yet we couldn’t drive on the highways. We started a northern roads report. Our caucus took over the northern roads report, and then we made a special report to the Auditor General. We brought that bill forward several times, and it’s those actions that pushed the governments of the day, the Liberal government and the Conservative government, to actually make some changes to try to make things better.

I think the 12-hour standard is a step forward; no one is going to deny that.

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Actually, the change in the contracts to make the contracts once again publicly supervised, as opposed to privately supervised—that is slowly happening—is a change for the better, and that came because members pushed hard for that. We pushed hard.

The stat that you’re twice as likely—actually, the stat in my riding is, if your car is registered in the district of Timiskaming and it’s involved in an accident, you’re four times as likely to die as in the rest of the province. It’s stats like that, and us bringing those forward, that have forced the government to react.

The government doesn’t want to hurt people on the highways. No government wants that. But it’s about money, and we have continued to push. We will continue to push. I commend the member from Mushkegowuk–James Bay for continuing to push, and we will all continue to push, because we know that the minute we look away, so does the rest of the province.

I can commit to you, Speaker, that we are not going to look away for people who drive on northern highways. Thank you.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member for Mushkegowuk–James Bay has two minutes to reply.

M. Guy Bourgouin: Merci, madame la Présidente. Je veux remercier tous mes collègues, puis je veux remercier aussi le gouvernement. Ça m’étonne tout le temps que c’est un député du Sud qui va parler contre mon projet de loi quand le gouvernement a des députés du Nord. Peut-être qu’ils sont trop gênés d’en parler, et avec raison.

Interjection.

M. Guy Bourgouin: Bien, si le chapeau te fait, que tu le portes, mon ami.

Je voudrais vous laisser sur cette chose. C’est une femme qui me l’a envoyé, une de mes commettantes. C’est un e-mail que j’ai eu à 11 h, avant midi :

« Quand aller travailler est une question de vie ou de mort.

« Cher monsieur Bourgouin,

« J’aimerais commencer par vous dire merci de prendre la parole pour les résidents du Nord. Votre aide est précieuse. »

La madame est allée travailler ce matin. Elle a suivi sa belle-fille, qui était obligée d’aller travailler. Elles pensaient que la route Transcanadienne était sécuritaire parce que les autobus étaient alloués sur le chemin et le chemin était ouvert. Elles roulaient à peu près à 60 ou 70 kilomètres dans une zone.

Quand elles sont arrivées à deux minutes passé le chemin Ryland, elle a vu la voiture de sa belle-fille perdre contrôle. Elle a commencé à faire des tours. Elle s’est ramassée sur l’autre côté de la route, puis il y avait des camions qui s’en venaient. La jeune demoiselle a eu la conscience de faire avancer son auto—ça a juste arrivé. La belle-mère était certaine qu’elle perdait sa belle-fille cette journée-là.

C’est pour vous dire que les conditions routières qu’on vit sont là, sont actuelles. Les statistiques que vous avez ne répondent pas bien—parce qu’il y a du monde qui meurt sur nos routes. On mérite les mêmes standards que dans le sud de l’Ontario. On ne vous en demande pas plus; on veut les mêmes. Je pense qu’on le mérite.

On n’est pas des citoyens de deuxième classe. On n’a pas de train, on n’a pas de tramway; on a une route, la route 11 et 17. C’est notre seul lien qu’on a pour aller à tous nos rendez-vous. On vous demande de le supporter; c’est un bon projet de loi. Faites la bonne chose. Ne traitez pas le monde du Nord comme des citoyens de deuxième classe. Votez pour ce projet de loi. On mérite mieux.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The time provided for private members’ public business has expired.

Mr. Bourgouin has moved second reading of Bill 43, An Act to amend the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act to make northern Ontario highways safer.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour of the motion will say “aye.”

All those opposed will say “nay.”

In my opinion, the nays have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred until the next instance of deferred votes.

Second reading vote deferred.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): Pursuant to standing order 36, the question that this House do now adjourn is deemed to have been made.

Adjournment Debate

Transportation infrastructure

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member for Haldimand–Norfolk has given notice of dissatisfaction with the answer to a question given by the Associate Minister of Transportation. The member has up to five minutes to debate the matter and the Associate Minister of Transportation may reply for five minutes.

Ms. Bobbi Ann Brady: If the saga of Caledonia’s Argyle Street bridge reconstruction were a movie, it might be called The Never-ending Story.

Built in 1927, the bridge is what is known as a rainbow arch construction, with the arches made of concrete. The individual arches are longer than typical with this design, and the bridge as a whole is the longest rainbow arch bridge in Ontario, if not in Canada. The push for building a new bridge started in 1925, after a portion of the previous bridge collapsed due to overloading by a truck. The toll house built on the north side of the river was the toll collector’s residence built by the Hamilton and Port Dover Road Co.

Nearly a century old, the time for rebuilding the bridge is long past. During an inspection in 2001 by the Ministry of Transportation, they determined the bridge was in a state of deterioration. Former MPP Toby Barrett, in 2013, flagged that the reconstruction of the Caledonia Argyle Street bridge was even then considered long overdue, having been on the ministry’s to-do list since 2001.

Back on August 31, I asked the Minister of Transportation why the reconstruction of the Argyle Street bridge in Caledonia was being held up. I appreciated the minister’s initial response that the reconstruction is a priority for the government. The minister also spoke about the need for due diligence on a laundry list of tasks that need to be undertaken—tasks that I actually believe have been completed and were completed prior to my question on August 31.

Due to inaction, load restrictions were put in place and trucks were asked not to use the bridge. As part of this, in 2019, stoplights were put at both ends of the bridge to keep traffic off it in the event fire trucks needed to pass. The restriction, which would slow emergency responders, remains in place today. I am told the ministry also collects fines from any commercial vehicle that passes over the bridge and is over the weight threshold. I’d be very interested in knowing how much money has been collected so far.

Further, Caledonia’s famed Canada Day parade had to be rerouted this year so as not to traverse the bridge. And in August 2020, the ministry boarded up the toll house and took over the property, claiming it was needed as part of the reconstruction process.

Preparation work, which included relocating endangered mussels and other wildlife, has been completed, yet the ministry issued a release last year stating that the reconstruction project was being delayed yet again. When I asked the Minister of Transportation for an update on the bridge reconstruction in August and what was holding up construction, I was told the project was a priority and they were currently in consultation with First Nations and were preparing for early work. The minister told this House that the early work was scheduled to start this fall.

The toll house is boarded up and endangered wildlife has been relocated, so what is the delay? It’s been over three months since my question the minister, and yet I’m told by those who live and operate businesses in Caledonia that they never see anyone near the bridge or working on the bridge.

Back in August and again this morning, the ministry continues to point the finger at the previous government. We know that when you point your finger, there are three pointing right back at you. This government has had over four years to begin reconstruction and all we’ve seen is stalling, secrecy and finger-pointing—oh, and we’ve also seen a woman kicked out of her home on the north side of the bridge.

Speaker, today I am seeking an adequate, a satisfactory response for the community of Caledonia and for the community of Haldimand county as a whole. This is a community that has been through so much over the past several years and they deserve an answer.

Yes, the necessary planning needs to be in place, but it has been 20 years. Let’s hope we get a conclusion to this never-ending story. I fear a national headline if we see the sequel to the 1925 collapse.

Speaker, in closing, I respectfully ask the ministry when the people of Caledonia, of Haldimand county, can expect reconstruction to begin. Will it be in January? Will it be in May? Or will we be discussing this again at this time next year?

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): The member from Brampton East.

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: Thank you to the member from Haldimand–Norfolk for that question.

When I take this conversation back to the association of municipalities conference that took place in Ottawa a while ago, the Ministry of Transportation and the minister met with city officials to discuss this particular bridge and discuss this topic, and I’d like to thank the member for reintroducing that into the House today.

While we are in active conversations and consultations on this particular project, this project of completing the Argyle Street bridge is an absolute priority for our government. The restoration of the century-old bridge is very long overdue, and we agree with that member. The Liberals also had a decade to address this issue, but instead, they did absolutely nothing. So Speaker, our government is committed to bringing this project over the finish line and our goal is to see this bridge restored as soon as possible. As work on this project continues, our government has taken interim measures to protect the safety of the travelling public who use the bridge, and this includes implementing further load restrictions for vehicles and completing temporary repair work to maintain the serviceability of the bridge until it can be replaced.

As we work quickly towards the construction phase of the project, we are continuing to closely monitor the structure to ensure that it remains safe for use. It is our government that is committed to building Ontario’s roads, highways and bridges across this province. It is our government that is committed to getting it done for Ontarians. When we go back to the election and we talk about infrastructure projects across Ontario, you’ll see that the largest infrastructure investments are happening under this government’s watch, and it is this government that’s going to provide the infrastructure for the future of Ontario, for our province to grow and for our cities to grow.

While this project remains an absolute top priority at the Ministry of Transportation, we are continuing to speak with the city and with our MTO project managers to have this move along. Like I’ve said, it is a priority, and because it is our government that has historically been providing these infrastructure projects across the province, you’ll see us getting it done here, as well, Speaker.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Patrice Barnes): There being no further matters to debate, pursuant to standing order 36(c), I deem the motion to adjourn to be carried.

This House stands adjourned until 9 a.m. tomorrow.

The House adjourned at 1522.