STANDING COMMITTEE ON GENERAL GOVERNMENT
Chair / Président: Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls PC)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Présidente: Mrs Julia Munro (Durham-York PC)
Mr MikeColle (Oakwood L)
Mr HarryDanford (Hastings-Peterborough PC)
Mr JimFlaherty (Durham Centre / -Centre PC)
Mr MichaelGravelle (Port Arthur L)
Mr ErnieHardeman (Oxford PC)
Mr RosarioMarchese (Fort York ND)
Mr BartMaves (Niagara Falls PC)
Mrs JuliaMunro (Durham-York PC)
Mrs LillianRoss (Hamilton West / -Ouest PC)
Mr MarioSergio (Yorkview L)
Mr R. GaryStewart (Peterborough PC)
Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Simcoe Centre / -Centre PC)
Mr LenWood (Cochrane North / -Nord ND)
Mr Terence H. Young (Halton Centre / -Centre PC)
Substitutions present /Membres remplaçants présents:
Mr DavidBoushy (Sarnia PC)
Mr GaryFox (Prince Edward-Lennox PC)
Mr PeterKormos (Welland-Thorold ND)
Clerk / Greffier: Mr Tom Prins
Staff / Personnel: Mr Jerry Richmond, research officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 0916 in room 151.
STREAMLINING OF ADMINISTRATION OF PROVINCIAL OFFENCES ACT, 1997 / LOI DE 1997 SIMPLIFIANT L'ADMINISTRATION EN CE QUI A TRAIT AUX INFRACTIONS PROVINCIALES
Consideration of Bill 108, An Act to deal with the prosecution of certain provincial offences, to reduce duplication and to streamline administration / Projet de loi 108, Loi traitant des poursuites concernant certaines infractions provinciales, réduisant le double emploi et simplifiant l'administration.
The Vice-Chair (Mrs Julia Munro): I'd like to welcome you here to the standing committee on general government looking at Bill 108. We're going to begin with remarks from the parliamentary assistant.
Mr Peter Kormos (Welland-Thorold): Chair, one moment, please, on a point of order: This meeting was scheduled to begin at 9 am. The Chair was here, representatives of all three caucuses were here. Mr Colle -- and I was aware that he was going to do that and I support him in his raising the lack of quorum -- raised the issue of lack of quorum 11 minutes ago. As the Chair knows, the Chair can't play with the commencement time to protect the government caucus's interest in maintaining quorum. A quorum was brought to the attention of the Chair over 10 minutes ago and the Chair knows what the rules provide for in the absence of a quorum 10 minutes or more after a quorum call.
Please, you were here at 9 am, Mr Colle was here, I was here and Mr Flaherty was here, and I believe at least one other Tory caucus member, Mr Danford, was here. It is quite frankly playing fast and loose if there's not going to be any heed taken of Mr Colle's point of order on the lack of quorum.
The Vice-Chair: I just remind you that it's after the meeting has begun that you have the 10 minutes. Certainly I appreciate the concern that you have and this is why I have started the meeting now.
Mr Kormos: That is playing silly bugger with the rules and it shows partisanship on the part of the Chair, which is most unbecoming.
The Vice-Chair: It is up to the discretion of the Chair when we start. I just bring to your attention that that is the Chair's discretion. I appreciate your concern and certainly that's why we have begun now.
Mr Kormos: There's still a lack of quorum, now that it's approximately 9:18 in the morning.
The Vice-Chair: Are you asking for a quorum call to begin now then?
Mr Kormos: Asking for it? I'm pointing it out to you, Chair.
The Vice-Chair: All right. That's fine.
Mr Kormos: One doesn't have to ask for it, one simply raises the issue.
The Vice-Chair: We have noted that. Thank you.
Mr Mike Colle (Oakwood): On a point of order, Chair: I just can't figure this out. On my understanding of what you understand to be the rules, the Chair of a committee could sit here indefinitely, for an hour or two, then decide to call the meeting and decide that the quorum clock starts clicking at 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock. That doesn't make procedural sense to me.
This meeting was supposed to start at 9 o'clock. There was a six-minute leeway given. I asked you to note at six after 9, "There's no quorum, Madam Chair." If you say it is up to your discretion, we could sit here till noon and then you could say, "We're going to have a quorum call" and start the clock ticking at noon. I don't think that makes procedural sense and I would like to see the clerk comment on that.
Clerk of the Committee (Mr Tom Prins): It's up to the Chair to ensure the progress of the committee, so it is at the Chair's discretion when the gavel comes down. If there is all-party agreement or there is a quorum, the Chair would definitely start; otherwise it's up to her discretion. We've had a quorum call, so I suggest that we suspend hearings now for 10 minutes so the clock can start ticking.
Mr Kormos: The quorum call was two minutes ago.
Mr Jim Flaherty (Durham Centre): On the point of order, Chair: Despite the protestations of Mr Kormos, I think he realizes and most of us realize that it's rare for committee hearings at this place to start on time, mainly because members tend to straggle in.
Many of the members of this committee are not members who have apartments in Toronto, like Mr Kormos, and have to commute to Queen's Park. When a meeting starts at 9 o'clock in the morning, that presents difficulties not only for witnesses and presenters but also often for members who commute to Queen's Park rather than have a place in the city paid for by the taxpayers.
The Vice-Chair: We have suspended this for a quorum call for 10 minutes.
The committee recessed from 0921 to 0930.
The Vice-Chair: We don't have a quorum. Would you call the names.
Clerk of the Committee: The names of the members present are Mr Flaherty, Mr Tascona, Mr Boushy, Mr Fox, Mr Danford, Mr Kormos and Mrs Munro.
Mr Flaherty: On a point of order, Chair: We would have a quorum if Mr Colle for the Liberals, who was here 10 minutes ago, had not left the room. There are sufficient government members here now, only one member of the NDP and no Liberals present. We have people from out of town here for these committee hearings today, from London and Kingston and other places, and I ask for unanimous consent to have a further 10-minute adjournment so that sufficient members will be present so the persons who are going to make presentations today will not have their time wasted in travelling to Queen's Park.
The Vice-Chair: I'm sorry, the rules are very clear on this. We must adjourn to the next meeting, which is --
Mr Flaherty: We have a quorum present now, Madam Chair, I believe.
Mr Kormos: It's too late now. It's 30 minutes after.
The Vice-Chair: I'm sorry, we must adjourn. This meeting stands adjourned until next Thursday.
The committee adjourned at 0931.