STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES
COMITÉ PERMANENT DES BUDGETS DES DÉPENSES
Tuesday 17 June 2003 Mardi 17 juin 2003
Tuesday 17 June 2003 Mardi 17 juin 2003
The committee met at 1544 in room 151.
MINISTRY OF EDUCATION
The Vice-Chair (Mr Alvin Curling): We'll resume the hearing of estimates --
Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): On a point of order, Mr Chair: I don't know why, but for whatever reason we ended up with the Ministry of Education being scheduled for estimates at the same time that we're debating a matter that deals with education in the House, and our critic needs to be there. According to the standing orders, you can't have the Minister of Education here at the same time as we're debating a bill in the House that deals with education, so I'm afraid this will not be able to go ahead.
The Vice-Chair: After consultations previous to your statement, it seems to me that we cannot proceed. My understanding is that the same issue is before the House now and some of the members who are critics of that are in the House and cannot be here also; it would cause a little bit of difficulty to be in two places at the same time. So we cannot proceed, in my understanding, with the estimates of today.
That leaves us, however, with time remaining in the estimates. We will have to resume tomorrow.
Mr Bisson: We can deal with that tomorrow.
The Vice-Chair: We can deal with that tomorrow. As it stands, we'll adjourn until tomorrow.
Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Deputy Premier, Minister of Education): I'd just like the record to show that we have, I understand, five hours and 20-some minutes left?
The Vice-Chair: Yes, but could we deal with that tomorrow, Madam Minister?
Hon Mrs Witmer: Right, but I just want the record to show that means we'll have to sit tomorrow, Wednesday, and next Tuesday, and I'm not available on Wednesday. It means our time goes into Wednesday, which means we won't complete estimates --
Mr John O'Toole (Durham): On a point of order --
The Vice-Chair: Let me just understand what the minister is saying first. We've got five hours and 20 minutes left. You said we won't be able to complete the five hours and 20 minutes tomorrow. However, it goes over until the next week, on Tuesday.
Hon Mrs Witmer: It's next Wednesday I'm talking about.
Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park): Chair, may I suggest --
The Vice-Chair: Just let us complete this, because I want --
Mr Bisson: Estimates are on Tuesday.
Hon Mrs Witmer: And Wednesday. We won't be done by next Wednesday, because we've got five hours and 20 minutes left. We can't possibly complete that in two days.
The Vice-Chair: Mr O'Toole?
Mr O'Toole: I would be interested in hearing what the Liberal education critic has to say, in the interests of accommodation.
Mr Kennedy: In order to accommodate the minister, the government may, by convention of the committee -- not by its rules, but by convention -- donate some of its time so that the minister and staff aren't brought back for the sake of 20 minutes. Speaking for our party, we would certainly find that amenable. We can either call a subcommittee meeting or we can agree to that here, but we wouldn't want to inconvenience the minister and staff for the sake of that time. That could come out of the government time over the next two days.
Mr O'Toole: If it came out of all parties' time, then I probably would agree. In the interests of making sure that everyone has equal time, and to me that's what's most important here --
Mr Kennedy: I'm just relating the convention, Mr O'Toole. If that's not agreeable, then it's not agreeable.
The Vice-Chair: Much of this can be done by unanimous consent. But let me say it again: since we cannot proceed, why don't we deal with this tomorrow?
Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton): Mr Chair, if I could make a comment, this is in fact a closure motion.
The Vice-Chair: No, no. We have dealt with that.
Ms Di Cocco: It isn't? All right.
The Vice-Chair: We stand adjourned until tomorrow.
The committee adjourned at 1548.
CONTENTS
Tuesday 17 June 2003
Ministry of Education E-95
STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES
Chair / Président
Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park L)
Vice-Chair / Vice-Président
Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River L)
Mr Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay / Timmins-Baie James ND)
Mr Ted Chudleigh (Halton PC)
Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River L)
Mr Gerard Kennedy (Parkdale-High Park L)
Mr Frank Mazzilli (London-Fanshawe PC)
Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka PC)
Mr John O'Toole (Durham PC)
Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London L)
Substitutions / Membres remplaçants
Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington PC)
Ms Caroline Di Cocco (Sarnia-Lambton L)
Clerk / Greffier
Mr Trevor Day
Staff / Personnel
Ms Anne Marzalik, research officer,
Research and Information Services