CONTENTS
Thursday 19 December 1991
Subcommittee Report
STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
Chair: Callahan, Robert V. (Brampton South L)
Vice-Chair: Cordiano, Joseph (Lawrence L)
Conway, Sean G. (Renfrew North L)
Cousens, W. Donald (Markham PC)
Haeck, Christel (St. Catharines-Brock NDP)
Hayes, Pat (Essex-Kent NDP)
Johnson, Paul R. (Prince Edward-Lennox-South Hastings NDP)
MacKinnon, Ellen (Lambton NDP)
O'Connor, Larry (Durham-York NDP)
Offer, Steven (Mississauga North L)
Tilson, David (Dufferin-Peel PC)
White, Drummond (Durham Centre NDP)
Clerk: Manikel Tanis
Staff: McLellan, Ray, Research Officer, Legislative Research Service
The committee met at 1011 in room 228.
SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT
Mr White: Mr Chair, I wonder if we might deal with the fact that it is 10:10. It should be important for people to show up for meetings.
The Chair: Whom are you referring to, me or the absence of members of the opposition?
Mr White: Mr Cousens is here.
The Chair: To whom are you referring, Mr White?
Mr White: I am referring to the blank bank.
The Chair: It is certainly apparent, but I do not think we are getting off on the right foot in terms of what the purpose of this committee is. Thank you for your observation.
Mr Cousens: I suggest we have a quorum.
The Chair: We do have a quorum.
Mr O'Connor: Are you hiding behind those glasses?
The Chair: Sorry about that. I had better put on the right ones. I am trying to create my mobster image, you see.
Mrs MacKinnon: You need a hat with the rim down.
The Chair: Is that right? I never wear a hat.
You have a copy of the report of the subcommittee attached to the agenda.
Ms Haeck: We have the report of the subcommittee. Obviously, as a subcommittee, we have had some discussion about all of this, but we did have a piece of business as a way of seguing into the subcommittee report and those discussions. I think we really have to deal with what happened last week, deal with the fact that there was a motion on the floor, make some effort to deal with that.
The Chair: That is right.
Mr Cousens: The report of the subcommittee has the support of our caucus. If we are able to proceed with the recommendation that the motion that was on the floor be tabled --
Mr White: On a point of order, Mr Chair: We had a vote at the time of adjournment that the first order of business would be the vote, not the report of the subcommittee. If we are trying some way of avoiding that vote --
Mr Cousens: That is what I am trying to do. If it was unanimous that we discuss it, I would be prepared that we have a unanimous vote at this point to -- in any democratic system, if we come into a meeting and it is unanimous that we look at something else as the first item --
Ms Haeck: Can we have a quick caucus before we get into this?
The Chair: Sure. Five minutes, 10 minutes?
Ms Haeck: For 10 minutes.
The Chair: Okay, we will recess for 10 minutes.
The committee recessed at 1014.
1020
The Chair: We are back in session.
Ms Haeck: At this point I think the best route to go would be to defer the vote on the motion put forward by Mr Tilson and move forward with the report of the subcommittee.
The Chair: Is that the agreement of everyone?
Agreed to.
The Chair: All right. You had indicated that on the proposed agenda there is the motion by Mr Tilson. Do you want to deal with that?
Mr Cousens: It will come after the next stage we talked about.
The Chair: Okay, so that is deferred and the subcommittee report is accepted.
Mr Cousens: I move the subcommittee recommendations.
The Chair: Those in favour?
Mr Cousens: I will read it in:
"That the Minister of Consumer and Commercial relations, or her designated officials, be invited to make a presentation to the committee on the above-mentioned matters at the earliest possible opportunity; and further, that the committee defer consideration of the motion of Mr Tilson until following the presentation by the minister or ministry."
The only thing I would remove is that I do not know whether we even want to entertain the motion by Mr Tilson, because if the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations -- he may well decide not to have that motion. He has the opportunity to give notice, and at a future time he can bring his motion forward. I would just go right up to "at the earliest possible opportunity" and remove that there is a motion. If he wants to make a motion, he can then do so at a future time.
The Chair: I think the reason Christel deferred it was perhaps because of his absence for personal reasons. I think that is appropriate.
Ms Haeck: I cannot speak for him. I would feel uncomfortable removing it without his knowledge.
Mr Cousens: Fine, but may I just suggest then that, in order to show the spirit of what we are trying to do, we do not need to schedule a time for the entertainment of that motion. I have a sense that if he has a motion --
The Chair: He can just bring it back in.
Mr Cousens: -- he can bring it back in.
The Chair: We will remove that from the proposed agenda for 4 o'clock on Monday.
Mr Cousens: Yes, that would satisfy me.
Mr White: Are you congruent with that, removing that last phrase?
The Chair: Yes. Well, no.
Mr Cousens: We will leave the phrase in, but we will not schedule it.
The Chair: He is leaving the phrase in, but it will not be scheduled in the agenda. Agreed?
Agreed to.
The Chair: You have a copy of the agenda for the winter recess before you. Subject to that one change, does that appear to be acceptable to the committee, or is there anything you would like to add or subtract? The 2 o'clock meeting on the Monday would be the minister or her designate coming forward.
Ms Haeck: Do you have any dates? There are no possible dates here.
The Chair: We do not know yet.
Ms Haeck: Nothing has been haggled out?
The Chair: No.
Clerk of the Committee: I have not heard anything from the whips and I do not believe any of the other committees, except the standing committee on resources development, have anything in the way of dates. I asked yesterday if there was a draft schedule to be made and I was told no.
Mrs MacKinnon: You are being treated the same as everybody else?
Clerk of the Committee: Yes.
Mrs MacKinnon: They do not co-operate for any committee, truthfully.
The Chair: I think what they try to do is fit them in within the time frame and the number of facilities available. We should find out. Is there something burning in here?
Mrs MacKinnon: Maybe you are thinking.
The Chair: That could be. No, that is an honest comment. It might be wood burning. I have been smelling it all day. It really smells like there is something burning. Is it the radiator? I just want us all to get out of here before anything tragic happens, if it is a fire.
Mr White: I move acceptance of the agenda.
The Chair: Okay, all right. Acceptance of the agenda has been moved. Those in favour?
Motion agreed to.
The Chair: That seems to do it.
I want to thank Douglas Archer, on behalf of the committee, for his kind thank you for the small thing we did for him in recognition of his yeoman's years of service.
I would like to wish everybody a Merry Christmas -- although these days you are not allowed to say that any more, I guess, from what I read in the Globe and Mail this morning -- and a Happy New Year. We will see you in 1992, if not sooner.
We stand adjourned until the call of the Chair.
The committee adjourned at 1025.