Legislative Assembly of Ontario

The committee met at 1610 in room 151.

ORGANIZATION

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Good afternoon, everyone and committee members. I have a script I want to read first and then we’ll select the ministries for the estimates for 2010-11.

As you know, the Lieutenant Governor has transmitted the estimates of certain sums required for the services of the province for the year ending March 31, 2011, to the Legislative Assembly. Pursuant to standing order 59, these printed estimates, upon tabling, are deemed to be referred to the Standing Committee on Estimates. All members of the House should have received a copy of the 2010-11 expenditure estimates when they were tabled on Thursday, April 22.

The objectives of today’s meeting are: (1) to select the estimates of certain ministries or offices for detailed review by the committee, and (2) to determine the date on which the committee will begin the consideration of the selected estimates.

Standing order 60 sets out the process by which the committee makes its selections. Essentially, each of the recognized parties on the committee shall select the estimates of either one or two ministries or offices in each of two rounds of selection.

The official opposition selects first, followed by the third party and then the government. After two rounds of selection, the committee will have selected the estimates of six to 12 ministries or offices for review.

Each party also determines how much time is to be allocated to the consideration of estimates for each ministry or office selected. A maximum of 15 hours is permitted per selection. If only one ministry’s estimates are selected in a round, those estimates could be reviewed for a maximum of 15 hours. If the estimates of two ministries are selected in a round, they could be reviewed for a combined maximum of 15 hours. It is up to the party making the selection to determine how the 15 hours are to be divided between the two ministries chosen.

At the conclusion of the two rounds, a maximum of 90 hours will have been allocated to the estimates review of the selected ministries or offices. The ministries and offices shall be reviewed in the order in which they were selected. This order may be changed only by an order of the House.

The estimates of the ministries and offices not selected for consideration will be deemed to have been passed by the committee. As Chair, I will report these estimates back to the House, and they will be deemed to be adopted and concurred in by the House.

Any supplementary estimates of selected ministries and offices shall be considered by the committee within the time allocated during this selection process.

In accordance with standing order 63(a), the committee must present a report to the House with respect to the estimates it selected and considered by the third Thursday of November this year, which is November 18, 2010. If the committee fails to report by the third Thursday in November, the estimates and supplementary estimates before the committee will be deemed to be passed by the committee and deemed to be reported to and received by the House.

Do the members have any questions before we begin?

Mr. John O’Toole: Just quickly, I want to verify that in the sequence of choice we would go first.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): You would go first, the third party second and the government third. We’ll go in that rotation.

Mr. John O’Toole: And then, once that’s selected, each one is probably seven and a half hours of their time and on the second one we would just go similarly?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Exactly.

Mr. John O’Toole: The NDP don’t start first?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): No. We’ll just go in rotation like that.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Just to clarify, it’s a total of 15 hours per pick.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Two ministries for seven hours or 15 hours for one.

Okay, so Mr. O’Toole, you’ll go first.

Mr. John O’Toole: Yes, our first request would be the government services ministry.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: For how long?

Mr. John O’Toole: For seven and a half hours.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Seven and a half hours? And your second pick?

Mr. John O’Toole: Our second pick would actually be the Ministry of Revenue.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): For seven and a half hours as well?

Mr. John O’Toole: For seven and a half hours.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: So both picks at seven and a half hours, finance being number 1 and northern development, mines and forestry being number 2.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Sorry, could you say that again?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Finance number 1, for seven and a half hours. Northern development, mines and forestry for number 2, at 7.5 hours.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Government?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Our first choice is training, colleges and universities for six and a half hours and economic development and trade for six and a half hours.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Just six and a half?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Yes, sir.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Training, colleges and universities. What was the second one?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: EDT, economic development and trade.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Okay. Mr. O’Toole—

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I just want to be clear: How many hours each? I didn’t hear—

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Six and a half.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Mr. O’Toole.

Mr. John O’Toole: This is the second round? Have I already got my request for the second choice being the revenue ministry?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): You’ve already chosen revenue.

Mr. John O’Toole: My first, of course, was government services, right?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Right.

Mr. John O’Toole: Our next choice would be health and long-term care.

I’m going to revise that. I would suspect that we would go with energy and infrastructure.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: So you’re doing health and energy and infrastructure both at seven and a half?

Mr. John O’Toole: We’d like to split them as two, and so my second choice would be actually energy and infrastructure.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): So your first one for seven and a half hours is health and long-term care and energy and infrastructure second for seven and a half?

Mr. John O’Toole: Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Okay.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Sorry. What was the first again?

Interjection.

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: And infrastructure.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Mr. Bisson.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Two at seven and a half hours, transportation being the first one and children and youth being the second.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Government?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: For our second round, intergovernmental affairs and aboriginal affairs for six and a half hours each.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Intergovernmental affairs for six and a half?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: Yes, and aboriginal affairs for the other six and a half.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Okay.

What was aboriginal affairs?

Interjections.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): We’re going to go over this again. That’s the two rounds completed, so we’ll go over it one more time.

The first choice for the Progressive Conservative Party is government services for seven and a half hours. Second is the Ministry of Revenue for seven and a half hours. Third is the NDP for seven and a half hours for finance. Northern development and mines for seven and a half hours is the fourth choice. TCU for six and a half hours for the government. Number 6 would be the Liberals at six and a half hours for economic development and trade. Then we go to choice 7: The PCs and health and long-term care for seven and a half hours. Energy and infrastructure for seven and a half hours was number 8. Transportation is number 9—NDP for seven and a half hours. Children and youth services for the NDP is seven and a half hours. Aboriginal affairs for six and a half hours was the 11th choice by the Liberals. Finally, intergovernmental affairs for six and a half hours by the Liberals. Okay? We’ll put that on our calendar.

So our first meeting will be on Tuesday, May 11, first thing in the morning. It will be between 9 and 10:20. Government services will be that day and probably part of the next, and then we’ll continue from that point on.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: To the clerk of the committee in regard to the six and a half hours, I’m just curious: How often has that happened, when we’ve actually selected a round less than the 15 hours that can be selected for estimates?

The Clerk pro tem (Mr. William Short): According to the standing orders, each round is a maximum of 15 hours.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I understand the standing orders. I’m just asking, how often have we actually picked ministries to be under the 15-hour total?

The Clerk pro tem (Mr. William Short): I could look into that. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I can look into that for you.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Can you get me that, please, and the members of the committee?

The Clerk pro tem (Mr. William Short): Yes.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Are there any other questions on the estimates for this year?

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Well, I do have another question. For what reason would the government underwhelm the number of hours allotted in your picks? Why not take the seven and a half? Is there a particular political strategy that I’m missing?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): I think that’s their choice. They can use up seven and a half hours.

Interjection.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: I’m asking the question.

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Would you like to explain or is there any reason? No?

Mr. Lou Rinaldi: I can, yes. It’s our prerogative, and I think we’re working within the realm of what the committee does.

Mr. Gilles Bisson: Okay. That’s all I wanted for the record. Thank you.

Mr. John O’Toole: Chair, do you need unanimous consent to change a preference, if there are other estimates that come in, supplementary estimates or something like that, to change the priority?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): An order of the House from here on in.

Mr. John O’Toole: An order of the House from here on?

The Chair (Mr. Garfield Dunlop): Yes, unanimous consent for the House to change it.

So, this is what we’ll be going right through to November with, this schedule right now, unless the House changes it for us.

That’s it. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much, everyone.

The committee adjourned at 1622.

CONTENTS

Wednesday 28 April 2010

Organization E-1

STANDING COMMITTEE ON ESTIMATES

Chair / Président

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Vice-Chair / Vice-Président

Mr. Robert Bailey (Sarnia–Lambton PC)

Mr. Robert Bailey (Sarnia–Lambton PC)

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins–James Bay / Timmins–Baie James ND)

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont–Dundas–South Glengarry L)

Mr. Kim Craitor (Niagara Falls L)

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga–Streetsville L)

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North / Simcoe-Nord PC)

Mrs. Amrit Mangat (Mississauga–Brampton South / Mississauga–Brampton-Sud L)

Mr. Phil McNeely (Ottawa–Orléans L)

Mr. John O’Toole (Durham PC)

Substitutions / Membres remplaçants

Mr. Lou Rinaldi (Northumberland–Quinte West L)

Clerk pro tem / Greffier par intérim

Mr. William Short

Staff / Personnel

Mr. Ray McLellan, research officer,
Legislative Research Service